63 thoughts on “Channel LSV – ROE Draft #3”

  1. c,mon LSV, get yer head in the game!

    I have never lost a draft where I drafted UW Levelers. It’s insane, and it tickles your control fancy as well.

  2. seems like the packs were overall pretty weak in quality which is just kinda rough luck.

    I hope there’s another coming soon!!

  3. I’ve drafted U/R Kiln Fiend a couple of times. Even when I lucked into the perfect deck (4 Kiln Fiend, 3 Staggershock, 1 Surrakar Spellblade, 4 Distortion Strike, 1 Surreal Memoir, 3 Mnemonic Wall, etc), it was still mediocre in real games. The threat density isn’t high enough, so any deck with removal stops it in its tracks.

    I’m not really surprised with your results, though I don’t think there’s much else you could have done.

  4. Wouldn’t have made an difference in these games but I was surprised you didn’t pick at least the first distortion strike you saw.

  5. I felt like this draft was a little unfocused. You had aggresive creatures but not a very aggresive deck.

  6. wow dude u shoulda got all those hand of emrakul lolololololol

    Nah, but that draft was just a streak of bad luck.

  7. Andrew Lapinski-Barker

    I would like to hear people’s thoughts on the following comment…

    when you had domestication, lust for war, the kiln fiend and distortion strike, totem-guide hartbeast popped up. Now I believed you should have taken it, just based on the enchantments you currently had. A splash for white isn’t devastating at a 5CMC and as the draft went on it proved to be a beast you could have grabbed two of, and when played fetched up either a Narcolepsy, Domestication, Lust for War or a Guard duty (even a second one if you had chosen to pick it). I would imagine a cut of black would be the way to go with this, and picking up white could have also meant grabbing the emerge unscathed. Now obviously at the time of the first Hartbeast you couldn’t have surmised a whole ton of this, however just based on the cards you had at the time its a pick I think I would have made.

    What are other people’s thoughts?

  8. I was wondering, could you have used reality spasm in response to Scorpion so he has to kill something of his?

  9. It’s interesting that both LSV and David Ochoa built similar u/r decks and they both lost round 1, maybe this deck just isn’t really that great.

  10. why wouldn’t you block one of his tokens when you bounced his guy? it seems that if you would have taken three you would have saved a lot of life because that is one less 2/2 he has beating you in the face with.

  11. Scorpion is a “may” ability.

    In game one, wouldn’t it have been better to try and get more value out of your Staggershock? You had two Regress in hand, so it’s not like you were winning the 1 for 1 card battle any time soon, so I think Regressing the Null Champ instead of Staggershocking it would probably slow the game down long enough to hopefully take out two things with it.

  12. Yeah, this was approximately my experience with this type of deck (even the better versions)

  13. I can’t believe you burned your only staggershock in a non-2-for-1 situation, when you were holding two regresses that were time walks vs his early plays. Neither one ended up getting any of the value that the staggershock would have, and it would have deprived him of a recursion target for the imp as well.

  14. I definitely wouldn’t have kept that hand in the 2nd game! Green can be devastating against U R you had especially a low amount of creature density compared to him.

  15. Sums up my experience with the UR Falter deck – potentially a blowout, but realistically a very swingy deck that seldom comes together. There’s no doubting its strength when you have three Fiends, a Fireboar and a pair of Staggershocks, but you 1) need to be the only one drafting that archetype and 2) the cards needs to be in the pool. I think you drafted it correctly though, as you didn’t just third pick fiend but aimed at a more consistent deck while keeping the falter path open.

    Better luck next time.

  16. I had the same happen to me. See some mediocre cards in the packs, draft a half decent blue red deck, and lose to some random green stuff without ever being in the game.

    I’m not sure UR is that good in this format :/ at least not without some innovation.

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  18. It looks like you got pretty much completely cut out of red pack 2. The guy to your left probably saw the lateeee Surreal Memoir and thought, “Okay Red is obviously way open” and probably opened a Heat Ray or something to cement it. P2P2 IS missing a common …

  19. Agree with blisterguy and M Ward, definitely would have Regressed the Null Champion there, and then get more value out of Staggershock later.

  20. *sigh*. “The Beastbreaker, Staggershock, and…cards that are basically worse than those two.” It’s like not noticing the Gigantiform in the pack in Zendikar draft. =/ Momentous Fall is much, much better than both Beastbreaker and Staggershock.

  21. @Andrew Lapinski-Barker: I agree with you, but at a different point in the draft. LSV picks Last Kiss over Emerge Unscathed, whereas Emerge is another way to get a Kiln Fiend through traffic. That would put him in white for other splashes (such as Guard Duty).

    The problem I’ve had w/ the Kiln Fiend deck is that you have to be able to wheel cards in order for it to work, and since people know about Kiln Fiend.dek, Distortion Strike is the first thing that gets hated out of a worthless 6-card pack.

  22. I was beginning to wonder whether the site only posted drafts where only great cards were passed. There were a lot of tough choices to be made and sometimes they just don’t work out. Also, not much you can do when you keep drawing the wrong color land.

    Kudos to LSV for putting, what might be viewed by some, as an unflattering draft outcome on the site.

    Please keep the videos coming. I learn a lot with each one. Win or lose.


  23. thank you for posting these videos lsv, and sharing your insight. they’ve been of tremendous help. ive jus recently started playing magic online and started these booster drafts. at first i was getting pwned all over the place, but after watching your videos and listening to your comments, they’ve really helped me to understand and choose more suitable cards with which to build decks around. your commentary is also hilarious btw. newayz, keep those videos coming, they are rly fun to watch!

  24. Jonathan Fisher

    kudos for posting the losing draft as well, I think everyone respects that, unless of course you are just trying to hide your secret tech for upcoming PT :o)

    Seems like you could have had a sick black blue deck, I saw a lot of black cards in the packs that had nearly nothing for your deck. Seems like you got sucked in by the staggershock and desire to play kiln fiend, I think we all fall prey to wanting to stick with first pick and wanting to build a specific archetype though…

    GL in future, I’m sure you’ll learn alot at PT and post some sweet vids in the upcoming weeks.

  25. anyone else notice the rares in Pack 2 were passed around like the town bicycle? no one wanted any of them besides his lord of shatterskull pass.

  26. The UR Draft deck is so incredibly similar to mana ramp. If you don’t draw your cards in the right order, you just don’t do anything. It isn’t like you to play that type of strategy; you (and me, and PV makes three) hate those decks =P.

    I have a feeling the next posted draft will be significantly better, hopefully with some sweet Corpsehatches and a Pestilence Demon or something.

  27. Honest evaluation: Kiln Fiend deck=Far worse than it looks. I have seen 2 seperate Kiln decks both with at least 3 Kiln Fiend at least 2 Distortion strike and a million falter effects go 1-2.

    On the other hand, I have 3 U/R Control decks based around Memnonic Wall and Surreal Memoir do very, very well, even when one was playing some weak cards. (Such as Ruined Servitor)

    Based on my experiences, I think the way to draft U/R in this format is Control, not Kiln Fiend. I could be wrong as the set is still rather new, but that’s been my experience.

  28. I built a U/r deck that didn’t lose a game in 4 matches a while back. won the draft.

    and guess what… i didn’t have a single Kiln fiend, distortion strike, Invoker, staggershock, and only 2 levelers (1 more in the side) in the deck.. and i had 2 big finishers in Magosi sphinx and Kozilek.

    Only ran 16 land, and played on the draw every game. had more than enough land usually and just simply had a ton of instant speed removal in the form of heat ray, regress, and 3 counterspells (2 deprive 1 lay bare)

    It was an awesome deck. I wish i could have converted it to a constructed deck it was that strong.

  29. seemed like the early parts of game 1 were played pretty poorly. staggershock was an inferior play to regress on the leveler early imo. this nets him mul daya channelers + in a cpl of turns with the shock. playing a very controllish deck with small duders seems weak. also, not playing ulamogs crusher in a control oriented deck seems just as weak as using the small creatures over him. overall, draft seemed weak from all aspects.

  30. Thanks for posting, lsv.

    That said, this deck performed just as terribly as I expected it would during deck construction. When lsv started looking for something to cut for the Last Kisses, it became pretty clear to me looking over his options that his deck had no win conditions (well, Shatterskull is okay). Reality Spasm, mulitple Regresses, the goblin tunneler, Domesticated Gomazoa…all this stuff isn’t going to do anything if a deck is not producing any threats, and Kiln Fiend is just going to be a mediocre Escaped Null unless you have a bunch of sweet cantrips.

  31. Regress is weak against Green in general, either spawn or fat, as they accelerate so much mana that the tempo gain is negligible. Likewise, they’re often either so big on the butt or abusing so many spawn that the Red removal underperforms as well.

    Bad match-up, bad draws (flood/color screw), and some iffy play got him.

    Note also the strength of the Scorpion.

  32. Passing on the Hatcher was also a mistake, as that buys time (he was getting beaten down with Pawn of Ulamog, for God’s sake!) or makes Crushers more reasonable to cast.

  33. Really wish you guys would go back to multiple pages for the vids. It’s much easier to a) read comments and b) skip the end of videos where they get boring (e.g., last picks from a pack, a losing game, etc.)

    Thanks as always for putting these up.

  34. You can skill skip ahead to the next video by clicking the arrow on the right hand side of the vid or selecting the appropriate video by hovering your mouse in the bottom of the player to bring up all the videos in the playlist.

    Feedback for the playlist (as opposed to separate pages) has been mostly positive, and it’s much less work for me, but I’ll agree that the playlist isn’t perfect. Thanks for the feedback.


  35. Not a bad deck, but not too powerful too.
    Horrible luck with drawing though, just like my last two drafts…

    Better luck next time!
    Thx for the videos.

  36. Khymera-ive tried to draft Kiln Fiend deck with more than that,,its just terrible,,,and U/W levelers is not the way to go,,u go R/G/B,,any combination of those and u just win

  37. if you respond to scorpion as opposed to scorpions comes into play ability, dont you make him kill one of his own guys?

  38. Domesticated Pawn

    i was just wondering if u can regress domestication of bocked escaped null when it triggers at the end of turn? getting rid of his guy and getting domestication back seem decent?

  39. You sac the domestication, not the guy, Pawn… rtfc.

    I like commenting on the whole draft too I guess, although each separate page had it’s merits.

    See you all in sunny Puerto Rico!

  40. Yeah Tim the playlist method is the way to go, it’s easier to navigate than the individual pages.

  41. @Chris you have to both left-click and right-click the card simultaneously

    Don’t you love how MTGO shuffles worse than you do in real life. LSV played to the best of his ability but it don’t mean squat when you draw like poop and the other dude curves out like a beast

  42. All I have to say is I knew this was a failed draft the second LSV added (and never thought to cut) Explosive Revelations, this card is Soooo bad unless you have big CC spells (7+ cc). As removal it’s terrible, all you can hope for with this spell is a crappy 3-4 point finisher to the dome if your lucky…

    I play alot of draft online and at this point I’ve done somewhere around 25-30 ROE drafts and have come TO one conclusion in particular…In this format you absolutly have to have 14+ critters in your deck, and walls don’t count unless they can do something productive, like damage to players/critters or add mana or cantrip.

    Though no one asked or particularly cares I did a quick review for all those still on the fence or confused about the worth of the deffender critters in ROE…

    Battle Rampart 1/3 [FAIL]
    T: Target creature gains haste until end of turn.

    Guard Gomazoa 1/3 [C+ just cause it blanks their best creature]
    Defender, flying // Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to Guard Gomazoa.

    Mnemonic Wall 0/4 [C- passable as a regrow for something good otherwise FAIL]
    Defender // When Mnemonic Wall enters the battlefield, you may return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.

    Ogre Sentry 3/3 [FAIL]

    Overgrown Battlement 0/4 [C at best at least it’s cheap]
    Defender // T: Add G to your mana pool for each creature with defender you control.

    Phantasmal Abomination 5/5 [F- If that grade was possible]
    Defender // When Phantasmal Abomination becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it.

    Rage Nimbus 5/3 [C+ Really cheap for what it does, and might get a creature through to get at the opp]
    Defender, flying // 1R: Target creature attacks this turn if able.

    Soulbound Guardians 4/5 [FAIL]
    Defender, flying

    Stalwart Shield-Bearers 0/3 [FAIL]
    Defender // Other creatures you control with defender get +0/+2.

    Vent Sentinel 2/4 [C+ just because it’s a consistant source of damage to the dome, and will be a FAIL if you haven’t drafted the right kind of deck]
    Defender // 1{R}, {T}: Vent Sentinel deals damage to target player equal to the number of creatures with defender you control.

    Wall of Omens 0/4 [B it’s cheap, cantrips, and delays their turn 2-3 drops]
    Defender // When Wall of Omens enters the battlefield, draw a card.

    Reinforced Bulwark 0/4 [FAIL]
    Defender // T: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.

    All of that is probably common sense but maybe it’ll help sommeone out in a ROE draft in the future…

  43. i must say, i prefered zen-zen-wwk to ROE. ROE just seems like a bunch of no-synergy creatures whacking at each other and a few ramps into the eldrazi.

  44. I’d say, at this point you should try to draft ZEN/WWK/ROE whenever the chance arises. Seems like that would be an interesting bout for you; rather than stumble and waste money. ROE just seems terrible in limited alone.

  45. I can understand the keep in game 2 if it had been game 1 against an unknown…

    But you knew your opponent had an extremely aggressive deck.

    You needed to draw mountain-mountain to make lord of shatterskull pass and explosive revelation good/castable. You needed mountain-swamp to cast everything in your hand.

    I know the format is slow *sometimes,* but you’d just gotten rocked by a really aggressive, good deck.

    I’ve played with Lord of 6/6 a couple times now, and it is tempting to keep anything with him and a kiln fiend… but man, such a greedy keep.

  46. .I tried the kiln fiend deck the other day, I am not a fan. I had 4 kiln fiends, 2 goblin tunnelers, 1 surrakar spellblade, a wrap in flames, and a fireboar. It only had 2 games where the main plan actually did anything. one was “kiln fiend, kiln fiend, kiln fiend, goblin tunnelers, wrap in flames, swing for 12, mnemonic wall for wrap in flames, wrap in flames, lose to reality spasm. The other was tunneler + spellblade. The spellblade had 4 counters on it when I lost. The match I won with that deck was more due to lust for war + guard gomazoa than kiln fiend.

  47. Pingback: Magic TV: Show #42 - Decklists in Standard | ChannelFireball.com

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