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51 thoughts on “Magic TV – ROE Hit or Myth”

  1. Have to say i disagree with you guys on Khalni Hydra I think its going to see alot of play in eldrazi green. Being able to cast it on turn 3 or 4.

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  3. linvala has to be mythic for limited… another one of those you don’t want to see too often in draft because she shuts down so many cards in the Rise only environment.

  4. Disagree on Hellcarver Demon, Kargan Dragonlord, Gideon, and Transcendent Master.

    Hellcarver Demon: Sac your board to do (potentially) giant and wacky things? Seems really Mythic to me. Yeah, it’s *only* a 6/6 flier, but its ability is really wacky, which is what I think Mythics should do.

    Kargan Dragonlord: Shivan Dragon should never be Mythic. I don’t care if it’s a 2/3 Shivan that dies if it breathes too much fire, the 5/5 man (dragon) himself, or any other variant. Shivan Dragon just should not be Mythic, ever, period. The only reason I tolerate Hellkite Overlord is because it has 5 abilities, not only Flying and Firebreathing, is 3 colors and not 1, and is part of a cycle of Mythics. Shivan Dragon is not Mythic.

    Gideon: I think this is about as bad as Planeswalkers will get. He’s not crazy good in Limited. Yeah, he’s good, but he’s not “I come down and win games” good in the same way as Elspeth, Jace, Ajani, Garruk, etc are. Yeah, I guess he’s an undercosted beater, but that shouldn’t be the guide for Mythic, that it’s OK to shave 2 mana off an otherwise-properly-costed card and make up for it by making it Mythic. I think that if any PW shouldn’t be rare, it’s him. And yes, I have played on both sides of the table of Gideon in Limited.

    Transcendent Master: Basically the same argument you gave against Khalni Hydra belongs here too. He’s just a big beater. He doesn’t have any impressive flashy abilities, and as Spearbreaker Behemoth has shown, being Indestructible doesn’t automatically make you Mythic.

  5. (Apologies for double-post)

    IMO, in order to be a Mythic rare, a card has to be able to produce a Mythic moment. What I mean by that is it has to be able to potentially be the center of a story you can tell your friends. For example, “I connected with Hellcarver Demon and cast an Emrakul off the top of my deck” is a pretty cool one. Or “I dropped a bunch of guys, and oh btw, a free 8/8 trampler”. Or “I was at 2 life, then I played my Planeswalker and made a wall of 3/3s that my opponent couldn’t get through, so I was able to stabilize and win”. If your best possible Mythic moment is “So I had this giant beatstick, turned it sideways, and won”, it’s not good enough, and that’s what I feel like Kargan, Transcendent Master, and Gideon are.

  6. “Gyre” is a real word, it means a circular vortex or spiral and is often used to talk about ocean circulation and currents. It’s pronounced with a soft G (“jy-er”).

    another good show guys!

  7. I don’t understand how LSV can claim that Figure of Destiny (which was a ~$35 dollar card online even as a rare) would be fine as mythic, and yet feel there is a problem that Gideon costs too much. If you have an opinion one way or the other, that’s fine, but it seems silly to claim that the best constructed cards in the set would be ok as mythic, and then be mad about their high prices.

  8. @zac: I’d much rather play against Linvala than Deathless Angel (a rare) in ROE limited. Although I’m still bitter about my last draft where I had a sick but bomb-less deck, crushed my way through four games, then lost to turn 6 Deathless Angel in game 1 of the finals and turn 7 Gideon in game 2.

  9. Kargan Dragonlord rubs me the wrong way as a mythic. Yeah, the flavor of a dude who learns to tame giant dragons is pretty cool, but he’s also a bear. He’s a 2-drop for your mono-red deck. I don’t like it when we get vanilla bears at common, bears with decent abilities at uncommon, and amazing bears at mythic. Kinda feels like Wizards saying, “Want to be competitive? Get out your wallet…” (Of course Vengevine is a much worse offender as far as that goes, but that’s already been discussed.)

  10. @Nate: People always seem to forget the other WW3 Angel from M10. You know, the one that, 10 years ago, was the most ridiculous bomb ever in Constructed?

  11. @Duffey: Was Stomper Cub played in Eldrazi green… he could be dropped turn 3 with elf and archdruid and he can’t even be countered…. No he wasnt… just not good enough. Same with Khalni Hydra.

    @Lyle: Are you really being serious that Gideon isn’t crazy good in limited. He’s completely absurd. Obv you don’t go and attack with him as a 6/6. He says you never attack me again and I kill all your guys one by one.. or all at once if i happen to have blockers. If that’s not a bomb in limited I have no clue what is…

  12. Whoever said Gideon is not that great in limited probably doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Gideon is very close to an ‘I win’ in limited. Right off the bat he timewalks them and then possibly deals them 6 damage on the backswing or crushes their best guy. That’s absurdly powerful.

  13. For purposes of Limited Balanced and even overall Constructed playability, Drana and Nirkana Revenant should have had their rarities switched.

  14. I find it amusing that as Shaun and LSV were reviewing the last mythic card, Humphrey’s name pops up right above Vengevine.

  15. I think that planeswalker is too powerful of a card type to say that it’s ok that all planeswalkers are mythic and some of them would be good. ‘Walkers aren’t like creatures where you can usually just sub in some other guy and do decent enough, they always do something completely unique and also powerful. I can see why you wouldn’t want to see them in limited very often but good planeswalkers (see: most planeswalkers) very often become constructed staples. I think that the best way to deal with something like this is doing what was done with ajani vengeant and to make planewalkers into (p)release promos. Ajani was a very strong limited card and was very available for people who wanted to play him in constructed. Despite the fact that he saw extensive play when RW lark was the deck to play he stayed right around $10.

  16. @Overdrive: I like all planeswalkers at mythic automatically. It just feels right, both from a flavor perspective and a power perspective (planeswalkers really do dominate in limited). That said, I sort of wish they were the only mythic rares, with the occasional exception for something like Progenitus or Emrakul et al. That’d keep their cost down, too; I doubt Jace, Gideon, and friends would be quite so expensive if there were 2-3 times as many of them in circulation.

  17. LSV-

    It’s time that the boat sails. You know it deep down; the longer you wait, you merely prolong what you know in your heart to be true.

    -M

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  19. If Chronologist ought to be Mythic because it has a big, cool, color-pie-fitting ability, then surely Hellcarver fits the bill as well.

    If anything in this set should have been Mythic for the purposes of balancing Limited, it’s Drana. Drana is stupid at rare, poisons entire drafts.

  20. I don’t feel like any of the Mythic levelers are mythic. The cost to make them large outweighs the epic feel of their final abilities. Casting a common powered creature that can become amazing still feels like casting a common powered creature. A mythic shouldn’t let the opponent have at least 2 draw steps to find an answer before it becomes a bomb.

  21. You guys who complain about Gideon sucking/not doing good enough should understand that wizards probably feel they made Planes walkers too overpowered and I am sure that Gideon is a step in the direction they want most planes walkers to be in, trying not to dominate a game and we can still win even if the opponent planes walkers are in play. (Seen games where older players use planeswalkers and newer guys just concede because they dont have maelstorm pulse or o ring/bolt etc. Not fun for them)

    No, I did not say they wont print anymore uber PW but.. they probably want to tone it down for most PW

  22. mythics are ridiculously overpriced… i dont think there ever used to be t2 rares worth much more than $10… now people run 4 jaces and theres $200 or more right there…

  23. @GRF- that would just be ludicrous. If there were more planeswalkers at mythic the really good ones would still be obvious and still be expensive. Not to mention that most of the planeswalkers would just be good- that’s the nature of that card type. You also open up the gate for a deck similar to super friends except times 12. I think it’s best to minimize the number of ‘walkers in standard, especially when guys like Gideon come along because at mythic planeswalkers are going to drive a high price tag and a deck full of them is going to cost more than an extended deck. I’m pretty sure that super friends is by far the most expensive deck in standard.

  24. except for vengevine LSV seems to find every card that’s possibly playable worthy of mythic and every bad card a ‘myth’.

  25. @Overdrive

    Mythic is actually more expensive than Superfriends, though much of its price tag comes from planeswalkers as well.

  26. cgr [Robert Henson]

    Yes! I was wondering if there was a Kings jersey in TSG’s wardrobe.

  27. People seem to be mistaking who is setting the prices here. Wizards does not mandate “gideon shall be expensive!” or “new jace shall be expensive.” there is a thing called supply and demand. While I grant that making mythics can limit supply, its really demand from the players that sets the prices. There are a great many junk mythics (Malfegor, for example) that never carry much price because there is no demand. It just so happens that the new jace is desirable in all formats (because it is brutally overpowered certainly). Ultimately, if you think a card’s price is too high, DONT BUY IT. If enough people do this, market forces will drive the price down eventually.

  28. LSV: You seem to be confusing “feeling Mythic” with ‘being extremely powerful’, which the majority of the time translates into ‘being good’ (or entirely overpriced). This would be terrible for the state of Mythics. The only Mythic that I really think should have been rare is Vengevine, and the only rare I think should have been Mythic is Drana.

    PS: The Revenant definitely has a ‘Mana Flare’ ability.

  29. I feel that they should reduce the number of Mythic cards they have in each set and re-adjust the occurrence of them showing up in a pack accordingly. This would eliminate the “vengvine and BS Angel don’t [i]FEEL[/i] mythic” problem in future sets while keeping the distribution of the ones that DO the same (i.e. the odds of opening a Jace 2, for example, would remain unchanged even if the odds of opening a Mythic at all do decrease). Honestly, it seems like WoTC builds the sets first, then sets the rarities afterwords. I know it’s not the way they do it, but it sure does feel that way.

  30. In all honesty as expensive as Gideon is, I’m glad he’s at Mythic.

    Played a few games last night in draft, opponent had Gideon both games – didn’t even feel close at that point, I just got crushed. The less I see of that, the better, although opening one to flog for a ton of tickets would be nice… =)

  31. Wizards do not set the price of the secondary market, but they do influence it in multiple ways. For one, making cards more common means there will be more to go around, dropping the price (think of how cheap rares are now). Secondly, printing cards so blatantly overpowered warps the decks into haves and haves not. For the most part, the current standard meta looks like Duel Deck: Jace vs Blood Braid Elf.

    Any way what is the rarity of mythics compared to the old rares (premythic)?

  32. Re: Gideon: I’ll put my thoughts on Gideon like this: I’ll play against Gideon a million times in RRR draft to never play against Ajani Goldmane ever again in M10 (or any other format in which he’s legal).

  33. Gideon, Transcendent Master, Khalni Hydra, Kargan Dragonlord, Linvala, Vengevine, and Ulamog just don’t seem mythic in my mind.

    Gideon has no true ultimate; his ability to smash isn’t a really mythic effect. Pretty much every planeswalker but original Jace and Gideon feel mythic because of their ultimates being so utterly destroying that you literally can’t lose afterwards. Jace 1 just kind of milled, and it was a complete bomb in draft b/c of this, but it wasn’t enough. Gideon is the same way; just smashes, and it takes multiple turns to kill with the ultimate itself.

    Transcendent Master, Khalni Hydra, Vengevine, and Kargan Dragonlord all just smash, and don’t really do anything else. Transcendent master is just french vanilla, while Kargan and Vengevine are too utility. Kargan is about as rare as Hellspark Elemental, while Vengevine feels like it should be the same rarity as both Ant Queen and Wolfbriar Elemental, which both just have the OMG factor but were made rares.

    IMO, Khalni Hydra in my opinion needs haste if you spent no mana to play it, to make it feel instead of just a cheap fatty as a beast that emerges because of all the prey lured out by it’s caster into action. That would give it more of a creature out of nowhere smashing face, rather than a creature that you see coming walking right into Day of Judgment.

    Linvala feels like it was made not to be a 5 mana 5/5 so that it didn’t compete with Baneslayer, and the ability doesn’t consistently warp the game. The ability is like the Sphinx of Jwar Isle in terms of mythicness, at least in my own mind.

    Ulamog just isn’t enough in my mind. Kozilek draws 4 like a buffed Recall, Emrakul Time Walks. Both of these are power level effects. Ulamog Vindicates. That’s Just not enough of an overwhelming advantage. Emrakul when cast 8 for 1’s (Assuming they untap and answer, Emrakul draws you a card, destroys six, and then takes another card), Kozilek 5 for 1’s (4 drawn and removal), and Ulamog is just a 2 for 1. It’s just like an expensive Woodfall Primus, which is most certainly a rare.

  34. “For the most part, the current standard meta looks like Duel Deck: Jace vs Blood Braid Elf.”

    yeah, at least BBE was uncommon instead of rare/mythic

  35. I won an 8-man MTGO standard tourney by using Kargan to trample through an Iona.

    Kargan is really an amazing card. People scoff at it if they haven’t played it, but he is the awesome finisher red was lacking. He rules.

  36. MythNotMyth-ic

    Despite being a play on words, it probably isn’t the best name for a show where “Myth” describes a card that *should not* be “Myth-ic,” at least in opinion.

    LSV: “I think it’s a myth. It doesn’t seem all that mythic to me” Huh?

    Myth or Miss just rolls better.

    Just sayin’

  37. Saw a Hellcarver demon cast at the pre release it revealed an emrakul… that felt pretty mythic

  38. I think Linvala should be mythic just because it turns off mana abilities on creatures which is something that hasn’t been done before.

  39. I also disagree with the concept of mythic rares, though I understand that some rares are more common than others. Since I can’t change this, I think certainly, that all planeswalkers should be mythic for their flavour and game impact. I do think that Magic could go the route of other games and limit mythics to a one of each per deck. This would make their appearance in games rarer and more special, and would also drive the prices down from the absurd levels some of them are fetching. the thought of paying $200 for a playset of one card is abhorrent to me. Also, it would make it more special to get one in a pack instead of thinking, “wow, only three more to go!” I also agree that some of the cards printed mythic shouldn’t have. Vengevine, Transcendent Master and Darksteel Colossus don’t feel mythic to me. But that’s me!

  40. COMPLETELY AGREE ON VENGEVINE. I’d love to run it, but it’s outrageous price prohibits this. Seems to have been underprinted even as a mythic too, I’ve opened three Emrakuls and none of this rascal.

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