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104 thoughts on “Magic TV: Extra – Cards Wizards Should Never Have Printed”

  1. “5 out of 6 of the decks had jitte, and one of them added Cranial Extraction just so they could name it.” “I think that’s lejittemate.”

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  3. Vivid//filterland format was really stupid so I would have to say Vivid Lands should have never been printed.

  4. Dont get me wrong now, i love force of will….but LSV complained about goyf being in 40% of legacy decks…..how many of them run force?

  5. IMO wizards should never print cards like, Tendrils of agony or the whole storm mechanic. I mean, either they are gonna be god awful and no one wil ever play them, or they will be completely broken.

  6. To me, cards that wizards should never have printed are cards that need to be transcendentally abusive, cards that can reach across boundaries of context and ruin fun. E.G. Skullclamp should never have been printed, but arc bounder ravager could. Skullclamp, no matter the format context, is ever anything but painful to play against, but Ravager can be tame without the affinity support.

    I think there a very few cards that they should never have printed but there are lots of examples of standard combos they shouldn’t have let exist. (e.g. a person above me mentioned the vivid/filter combos of lorwyn. Both cycles could have been printed, but printing them at the same time was over much)

  7. I think the cards that shouldn’t have been printed are the cards that are oppressive, but completely unbannable. Stuff like Vivid Lands, Cryptic Command, Bloodbraid Elf, Jitte etc. You can’t help but play against them round after round, but you can’t really make an argument for banning them that is sound. Skullclamp was better to print because it was so egregious that you can just ban it and be done with it.

  8. Aether vial seems like someone should have noticed it was too good and Ravenous trap/Relic/the next 5 graveyard hate cards from the next 10 sets. I think if dredge is too good you should ban something and stop making cards that get around the current “anit-hate”

  9. If you had to remove one card from faeries during its Standard peak, which would have been a worse loss, Bitterblossom or Mistbind Clique?

  10. Everyone’s hatin on vivids. what’s with that?
    Last standard was so fun, mostly because you could do what ever you wanted with your mana, and it would work. and you still had incentive to play less than 5 colors, (kithkin, faeries, black white tokens, epser lark, 4 color blood, conley wood special).
    Don’t be hating on vivids, they represent a standard where bloodbraid elf wasn’t broken. I played 5CB, the deck was sweet. rocked face, but without 4 maindeck fallouts and at least 3 pulses, I was screwed against faeries, until GGS was printed. then I had 4 dead cards against 5cc etc.
    Vivids were sweet, and if I had 2 more years with last standard, I would be fine with that, instead of this stupid format that is all about blightning(that card wasn’t even good enough for my bloodbraids last season.)

  11. Looking way back, cards such as Black Vise and Necropotence were arguably too dominant. Yes, Black Vise was in Alpha, Beta and Unlimited, before Magic was real big, but putting it in Revised may have been a mistake. It was an auto four-of in many decks. As for Necro, when it took hold, that was the first time I remember a card being the centerpiece of a deck that became the “either your with it or against it” build.

    Others: Sol Ring, Balance, Strip Mine, Land Tax, Channel (+ Fireball = great Web site and most bustedest combo ever), Ivory Tower, Mind Twist. All of these cards were reprinted. Demonic Tutor, even.

    Perhaps it was the explosion of Revised, however, that MADE many of these cards broken. As LSV and TSG said, within the context of the state of a young card game, maybe printing some of the busted cards wasn’t wrong, and Revised just did those cards in.

    Also, don’t forget Island. And, for those who remember, was anything more annoying — just annoying, not ban-worthy, just annoying, so annoying — than Stasis?

  12. are you kidding….whats worse to lose bitter or clique? do you play magic?

    dredge hate is good because it allows an archetype to continue without making it too powerful.

    Vivid lands aren’t that abusive. I mean 5 color had such stiff competition with stuff like faeries, RDW, and kithkin that it wasn’t oppressive.

    I love the slow people getting my top banned comment.

  13. I am surprised by how much I agree with their choices. The only card I disagreed with was Bitterblossom. Sure, Bitterblossom was the lamest card ever, but that was more due to the tribal block than the actual card. It would had been okay in any other set (in my opinion).

    My own list would probably include cards like these:

    Bloodbraid Elf
    Tarmogoyf
    Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile
    Force of Will (and Daze to a lesser extent)
    Brainstorm
    Baneslayer Angel
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Arcbound Ravager
    Mind’s Desire
    Fetch lands
    Dual lands
    Skullclamp
    Æther Vial
    Umezawa’s Jitte
    Sensei’s Divining Top
    (… and a ton more)

    Basically I dislike cards that are so superior to their “peers”, that you don’t even consider an alternative. I would also love if Wizards banned far more cards in general, but I guess that’s the problem with having a collectible card game, that is also being played on tournament level.

    Disclaimer:

    As I don’t play Standard, Block or Limited my choices obviously reflect this. I also only play online, so again that will influence my hatred towards certain cards (FoW for an example). Oh, and I have been played Magic on a competitive level since TSP, and been collecting it on/off since the Urza Block.

  14. @LoganSV

    I think the biggest problem I had with the vivids is that it totally wrecked the art of making a mana base. I don’t think there should be a deck that can reliable cast Cryptic Command, Cruel Ultimatum, Esper Charm, and Broodmate Dragon for a vast majority of the games.

    Meh, but it was a fun deck to play. 😛

  15. As they said with jitte, cards only matter in context. In that context bitterblossom probably should not have been printed. As for baneslayer angel and jace the mindsculptor, they need to sell boosters somehow. None of those cards warp the constructed scene in the way for example bloodbraid elf does. If force of will never had been printed they would have to ban instead of restrict in vintage, luckily they don’t have to.

    As for any card that have been banned should not have been printed i don’t think that applies to artifact lands. Without ravager and skullclamp everything would have been fine…

  16. In my opinion the only cards that should never have been printed are the ante cards, and cards like Chaos Orb. These cards never see play and are banned in every format because they are too complicated or promote gambling or whatever the argument is.

    As for the statement about anything else mentioned, it would seem there are sour grapes about losing to something busted. There is a group of people who play this game simply to do busted stuff. EDH players that’s you.

    If I had to name one card that changed Magic, it would be Necropotence.
    Easily the most unfun time to play Magic was combo winter. Sitting down against Necro was brutal.

  17. I hate Arcane Laboratory, there are too many times with friends when that blasted card is out with an isochron scepter with counterspell. Makes gameplay suck.

  18. It would be great if you showed the cards on top of the video for 10seconds 🙂 I don’t know many of these cards and it makes video watching a bit hard. Thanks!

  19. Umm…I dunno…like half the creatures in Type2? Steppe lynx? Seriosly? 4/5 for 1 mana…Ranger of eos?…The best concentrate ever…Bloodbraid elf?…Then there’s the 3 mana dudes…Leatherback, wolly thoctar, knight of the reliquary.

    The power creep on creatures is insane right now.
    During the last 3-4 editions the best “fattie” ever has been replaced 3 times…First progenitus took the spot (Over Darksteel collosus i think), then iona, and now emrakuel…I know they cost a boat load of mana, but honestly, noone expects people to pay full price for them anyway.

    It’s rather weird looking at the creatures that are being played across the formats, even those in legacy/vintage are mostly standard legal right now.

  20. The problem with banning Bitterblossom, I think, would be that it’d have dropped faeries down to a tier 2 deck. What would have happened then? Reveillark would have completely taken over the format because that card was completely busted and only kept in check by faeries.

  21. Vivid’s. They were printed in a set where wizards was promoting 2 color decks… so they printed vivids and reflecting pool to allow a 5 colour manabase in a set that they were trying to push 2 colours. Disregarding that 5 colours shouldn’t be played unless its domain and that it took away having to not only build a good manabase but also decide what colours are best the vivids should’nt have been printed because it didn’t suit the theme they were pushing at the time.

  22. Pingback: On Bloodbraid Elf. (Yes, I’m going there.) « Affinity For Islands

  23. Vivids and BBE are fine cards. Like someone above said, BBE wasn’t even broken last season. The current format just can’t deal with it… I think that is more of a failing of the current sets than with BBE. I don’t think vivids/BBE will be tearing up the extended or legacy scene any time soon.

    Yawg’s Bargain/Will, Tolarian Academy, Skullclamp, Gush… THOSE are busted and should never have been printed. Those kinds of cards transcend formats and have the potential to just win, right there.

    I also agree that cards that are broken mechanically (i.e. have almost no discernible purpose because the card just doesn’t work) should not have been printed. Here’s looking at you, Chimney Imp, One with Nothing, and Steamflogger Boss.

  24. @ tristan in older formats most combos are faster than counterspell. so they need a free counterspell to keep them healthy, force of will is not broken, its just really good.

  25. @oyzar

    “As for baneslayer angel and jace the mindsculptor, they need to sell boosters somehow. None of those cards warp the constructed scene in the way for example bloodbraid elf does.”

    Negative. BBElf might be worse than baneslayer, but you are looking at two entirely different sides of a coin. While BBElf has massive card advantage, I spose you could put it up to at least a 3:1 card, more if you hit something like blightning (another format dominator, find me a Jund list that doesn’t run blightning, or Grix colours). That being said, I don’t think BBElf wouldn’t be QUITE as broken as it is, if it weren’t in the same format with Blightning, either one or the other is fine, but getting both for 4 mana is just nutty. Even for 5 you are pushing it. Cascade as a whole has caused quite a few problems, and really pushes the card advantage boundary to its outer limits.

    On the other side of the coin, you have Walletslayer, every deck that even splashes white has to have it, and when put into an environment with Lotus Cobra and fetches, it’s nearly impossible NOT to power out walletslayer ever turn from T3.
    T3: 5/5 Flying, First Strike, Lifelink, Prot from Dragons and Demons (realistically and flavourwise, their only big competition in terms of creatures).

    @Mike – I agree with you to an extent, dreamhalls was strong, and still is. However it’s strength is limited by the fact that ALL players can make use of it.

    If you want to take a look in a limited sense, Jitte definitely has to be number one, and kudos to they guy who added Cranial Extraction expecting to see everyone with a Jitte.

    Looking towards the current limited format, we are seeing easy turn 4 wins with Steppe Lynx / Geopede combo absolutely stomping everyone, and in fact, move in and can dominate the Type 2 scene quite well.

    Type 2: Knight of the Reliquary gets rated up there, and for the time it is still in T2 while Rise is in the format, will go up higher. T2 knight, t3 eldrazi temples + an eye of ugin, seems slightly problematic. And throwing a sledge on them kind of always pushes the Knight over the edge in terms of combo’s, it’s hardly fun to be looking across the field at a 12/12 trample lifelink creature – not so rare to happen, makes you want to run a deck of nothing but removal 😛

    Goyf has to be one of the biggest issue cards, 1) should have been blue, 2) should have been 1UU or 1GG if you wanted to keep it green. Goyf would be a $5 card instead of, I think the going rate is $100AUD

  26. Tolarian Academy. I remember when Inquest was offering you a booster pack for sending in your academies.

  27. I think Jace is the new Stasis. If Jace is down and you don’t have an answer you’re probably six agonising turns away from defeat. It’s a massive flaw. I’m sure it’s fun to play with but I’ve been pretty unlucky, with people tapping out to play it knowing I can deal with it if I have the bloodbraid, and me just not having the bloodbraid or Ajani V or often even land number 4. I’m fine with Jace sometimes but if you agree that cards like stasis or winter orb and icy manipulator have proven to be bad for the game and Jace might be the same (particularly when the best answer in the format rotates)

  28. Bloodbraid Elf is receiving far more attention than it deserves if only for the fact that it’s part of the Jund engine. It’s an extremely good card, but it’s power level is also very deceptive. The problem is not that it’s a 3/2 haster with cascade – the problem is that the deck it plays in all of its cascade targets are either good or excellent.

    What makes Bloodbraid Elf good, then, is Blightning, Terminate & Sprouting Thrinax and friends. And since it’s played in a deck that unlike any other dominates the meta, it’s not a long stretch to assume it makes it a boogieman card. Rather than being an example of how easy it is to abuse though, I more see it as an example of just how high the card quality is in Jund.

    Is Jund successful because of Bloodbraid Elf, or is Bloodbraid Elf overpowered because of Jund? I think neither.

  29. Also second Tolarian Academy and Skullclamp, Strip Mine, and Stasis and maybe plow under. Though plow under has fun to play written all over it.

  30. Voidmage Prodigy
    Shadowmage Infiltrator
    Rootwater Thief

    These are each watered down invitational cards (printed instead of the proposed versions due to power level worries) that are pretty much unplayable in any format. I think invitational cards should have been pushed powerwise the way Planeswalkers are being pushed. They are fun and ought to be like Dark Confidant and Ranger of Eos and (the original) Meddling Mage. Why are the cards that exemplify some of the best players in the game’s history junk rares instead of legacy staples?

  31. “Is Jund successful because of Bloodbraid Elf, or is Bloodbraid Elf overpowered because of Jund? I think neither.”

    I think it’s significantly more the former than the latter, while it is true that BBElf didn’t see much play until the entire lor/shadowmoor block rotated out, I would like to think at least part of that is because people didn’t realise what it really is.

    To quote a friend
    “imo BBelf seems more and more like a direct 4.5 for 1 and would be fine at RRUU or 3RU.
    1: she comes into play and gives you a black lotus (3/4 mana return)
    2: she comes onto the stack and plays a better, undercosted, quicken. (the rest of the mana)
    2.5: you get the rite of flame to pay for the better quicken, even if corectly costed.
    3: that quicken say “conditional fathom trawl for 1 card” rather than “draw”
    4: She’s a 3/2 creature, and
    4.5: she has haste (conditional lava spike)

    so shes a bigger (though less versatile) trinket mage that comes with a compendium of free s**t
    add in that you could hit blightning, practically a 3 for 1 (mind rot + lava spike), and bbelf comes anywhere in between a 4.5 for 1 and a 7.5 for 1.”

  32. @ Taron

    Why in the world would Goyf be blue? Blue is the complete opposite of efficient creatures.

    Also, Baneslayer is nowhere near the problem that BBE is. For one, it’s incredibly easy to gain an advantage against. You played a Baneslayer? Great, I’ll Terminate it. Now your 5 mana creature has been negated by my 2 mana removal spell. BBE is nowhere near as easy to gain an advantage against, much less even trade with. Yeah, Double Negative just barely does the job, but not very effectively, as it requires you to leave mana open. And Ethersworn Canonist will stop the spell off of cascade and can trade with the elf, but is incredibly narrow in its other uses. Even without Blightning in the format, there are a ton of 3 mana spells that are worthwhile to cascade into. Just cascading into Lightning Bolt makes for a pretty effective spell.

    @ Tristan

    Force of Will is a very bad choice for a topic like this. First of all, take a look at any Legacy tournament, like Madrid – far more decks were running Goyf than Force of Will, so I’m not sure what the point you were trying to make was with that. Additionally, Force of Will has had an incredibly positive effect on the eternal formats. The fact that Force of Will exists is what stops Legacy from degenerating into a field of combo decks, and the same applies to Vintage to some extent.

  33. @ Taron

    It’s unfortunate about your friend. I hope he will have better luck articulating himself in the future.

  34. I understand what you mean, but the quote only strengthens my point. There’s a saying, “the chain is no stronger than its weakest link”, and the reason the chain is so strong (i.e. the card advantage is so substantial) is that there are no weak links in Jund. Conceptually, saying that Bloodbraid Elf is insane because of Bloodbraid into Blightning is to ignore the other half of the equation – which is Blightning. Similarly, if enough staple elves were printed in standard, Nissa Revane would be completely bonkers – in both cases we’re focusing on the result rather than the cause.

    Bloodbraid Elf isn’t the issue, it’s the setting in which she’s allowed to unfold.

  35. @alash

    but I suppose it need be said that many cards for whom the ideal setting is very broad. i.e. Bloodbraid just needs a format where red green and/or another color have access to quality 1, 2, or 3 drops, which really isn’t a tall order. Sure BBE into Blightning is “the dream” there would be some other “dream” target.

  36. @ Wescoe

    Shadowmage Infiltrator saw plenty of play when psychatog was dominating standard (and block), right? It was a real moneyrare back then if I remember correctly.

  37. Yet anywhere but in Jund, she doesn’t seem unbalanced. How is that? Many a deck that plays red and green plays her, most recently the barely-competitive Nayallies. I’ve played that deck a ton, and while she’s certainly good there in creating even more ally triggers, she’s no better than Ranger of Eos. And ChannelFireball’s own Matt Nass who recently took his Acid Ramp deck all the way to the top 8 of TCGPlayer $5k didn’t play it, despite it being his two colors.

    As far as I’m concerned, the only issue with Bloodbraid Elf is when she’s followed by (say) a Blightning, a Sprouting Thrinax, or a Terminate, and each of those cards deserve half the credit for that.

  38. gradschooldropout

    @Alash

    What a useless string of words.

    Tolarian Academy is receiving far more attention than it deserves if only for the fact that it's part of the CMU engine. It's an extremely good card, but it's power level is also very deceptive. The problem is not that it's a land that gives mana for each artifact – the problem is that the deck it plays in is all cheap artifacts and draw 7s.

    Disciple of the Vault is receiving far more attention than it deserves if only for the fact that it's part of the Affinity engine. It's an extremely good card, but it's power level is also very deceptive. The problem is not that it's a 1 mana creature with a relevant damage ability – the problem is that the deck it plays in is all artifacts and artifacts that put them in the graveyard.

  39. Force of Will and Daze are not cards that should never have been printed. In formats with easy first-turn wins Force of Will single-handedly prevents massive numbers of bannings and allows the formats to be more than just a bunch of combo decks trying to go first every game.

  40. Every card from saga block. If you didn’t play then, and you think BBE is unfair, consider that baragin could win turn 4 every game undisrupted, but never got the axe. Academy would get unlucky and have to wait until turn 2 to generate 55 mana to deck you with stroke of genius.

  41. Nice way to try and abuse my rhetoric, but a detail evaded you:

    Tolarian Academy and Disciple of the Vault can’t be substituted by other cards. Each of them have a unique role to play, and play it by abusing a specific characteristic of a specific deck.

    Bloodbraid Elf has no unique role; it serves as a beater and a cantrip on steroids. It has good synergy with cards like Blightning, but it doesn’t abuse any theme the those two cards do, and more importantly, it’s not guaranteed to utilize that synergy. You might have to put that Terminate on the bottom of your library. People tend to rate her on the basis of Best Case Scanario – heck, it’s hardcoded in our brains to remember spectacular events over insignificant ones – and while that scenario would seem unbalanced, it doesn’t represent what happens on average.

  42. Fluctuator was pointless to make. All cycling cost 2 and Fluctuator make it free. Free card draw seems way too good for every card in ure deck. It was a one card 2 mana victory spell.

  43. @ Wescoe is right on. Voidmage Prodigy is a travesty and Wizards should apologize to the greatest player of the game with a new card. His original cad Wisedrafters Will, was great and they should have let him have it, or something like it.

    Wisedrafter's Will
    U
    Enchantment
    Opponents play with their hands face-up.
    U: sacrifice Wisedrafter's Will: Draw a card.
    U: sacrifice Wisedrafter's Will: Counter target spell.

    They forced him to make it a creature as well. it’s really a shame that wizards took a cool thing like making your own card and then destroyed the ideas and wants of the best player (apparently) of that year.

    @Brouw No. Infiltrator never saw heavy play at all. It was printed in a block with Wild Mongrel, and was made irrelevant.

  44. I with Sean F, the only cards that shouldn’t have been printed are the one’s banned in Vintage (ante cards, Chaos Orb, Falling Star, and Shahrazad). All others are fine. Every set has cards that are more powerful than others. Every format has the key power cards that if they weren’t printed, there would be another to take it’s place. Like I read in an article about Vintage (sorry can’t recall the writer), every powerful card has an answer that is cheaper in cost. For every Mox and Lotus…there is Chalice of the Void, for every combo…there is FOW, for every Tarmogoyf.. there is swords to plowshares, for every Tolarian Academy…there is a wasteland.

  45. Actually I think, expensive cards like Baneslayer Angel are good for the game.
    If the demand (and price) for a individual card is high, retailers end up opening more packs just to get those cards in store, therefore they have to lower the prices for the remaining cards of the sets.

    There certainly won’t be a 100$ (non mythic) rare in a small set, because this would people start cracking boxes like crazy and flooding the ,market until it reaches rational prices again.

  46. Great show, you might want to check your audio levels though… the last couple episodes tristans mic seemed much higher in volume than LSV. Other than that great episode!

  47. is it just me or is the opening music on MTV reminiscent of porn…

    it’s interesting that wizards didn’t ban Bloodbraid Elf, without this card the entire last year of standard would have been completely different – and i think most people would agree better
    it may be because even though people hated affinity they didn’t want to see all of the money they had thrown into the build go up in smoke – as it did when the ban hammer came down
    banning is never good for the game and i doubt will see any much more of it in standard

    interesting comment re Black Lotus not being broken in its day – considering the name of this site :>
    nice vid.

  48. The only cards that WoTC never should have printed are cards with “anti” in them, and cards that require manual dexterity. In other words, cards that are banned in every format. Other than that, the game is diverse enough and balanced enough that literally ANY card can be absorbed that has been printed to date. Historically if pros want to beat a deck, they WILL beat it.

  49. Hey guys,

    If I’m not mistaken, Luis’ microphone on his shirt isn’t working.
    Tristan is WAAAAAY louder than Luis

  50. @ allash bloodbraid elf can’t be substituted for another card any more the academy or descipal. there isn’t another four mana r/g draw spell that would replace the elf in any of the decks that run it. And no one would substitute another creature. bbe is why people play jund and five color blood, and it is hugely important in the old swans deck and in bloodmoon zoo in extended, and is still irreplaceable in boss naya, r/g scapeshift and decks that don’t use it as well as jund does.

    In short the only way bbe isn’t busted is if it is printed in a format where there are no spells that cost zero, 1,2 or 3 that are worth casting for FREE, and that is just not that likely to ever happen.

  51. The standout in my mind is Memory Jar, though similar to what LSV said, cards that Wizards has banned are cards that Wizards probably should not have printed.

  52. dowjonzechemical

    This is my list of cards that shouldn’t have been printed:

    Island

    The End

    Happy April Fools

  53. I agree 100% that Tolarian Academy should not have been printed! Also, shock…should have been lightning bolt all along. But wizards at least finally found that out!

  54. The problem with current std and jund is that most of the format doesn’t actually do anything. Bloodbraid elf was fine to print, theres just nothing else in std worth building a deck around. There aren’t enough truly unique and powerful effects atm like reveillark, bitterblossom, and cryptic command. Most of shards is basically expensive cards that do nothing at all because they’re all worse than baneslayer while doing nothing unique. In rise they need to stop printing more garbage vanilla creatures like abyssal persecutor and start printing stuff like jace that actually fills a unique role in decks.

  55. There are some reasons why bloodbraid elf isn’t the mistake that some other “shouldn’t have been printed” are.

    1. Was never banned
    2. Did not dominate its limited format
    3. Is not an instant win
    4. Is not a brutal combo

    To my mind, since Kamigawa, the only mistake (based on power) is Jitte. Besides actually being a mistake according to Wizards. It dominated its limited format and is a superstar across all formats.

  56. Bitterblossom shouldn’t have been Tribal, and Sensei’s Divining Top should be allowed in Extended.

  57. Skullclamp was #1 for me, Strip Mine #2. Most of the cards were problematic due to the environment they existed in

  58. How about Chronicles!

    Then we wouldn’t have this stupid re-print policy, nor the discussion around it. There, I said it.

  59. It was mountains. There was a Pro Tour where there were more Rashidan Ports played than Mountains.

  60. Bustedness sometimes can’t be judged by a single card in a vacuum. Often, it is the interaction between a limited set of directly linked cards that power boost each other to unfun levels.

    Recently, Pool-Vivid was an arguable example of this. Either the Pool reprint was a mistake or the Vivids shouldn’t have been printed. Their interaction underminded color discipline in a way that condensed the format primarily around decks that played all of the best cards regardless of color, shrinking the number of cards that got played.

    By the same reasoning, either the Fetchland or Shockland cycles should not have been printed as-is because their interaction is too good. The fetch/shock manabase in Extended undermines color discipline and makes the format more inaccessible to newcomers than it otherwise needs to be. 1 life is appropriate for fetching 2 colors, but there is too much color flexibility in fetching shocks. This is more cut-and-dry than the Pool-Vivid example because we can see that fetch-shock manabases define every format in which the combination is legal.

    I also think that a card shouldn’t be printed if it busts a deliberate cycle:
    Cryptic Command was a mistake to print, not even because of its power level but because of this. By dint solely of being an instant, it was automatically more powerful and playable than the rest of the command cycle. The correct decision would have been to find an appropriate sorcery-speed command for Blue or to design acceptable instants for the other colors. Several of the existing cards would have competed effectively overshadowed Cryptic and would need to have been toned down if all of them were printed as Instants. The equivalent cycle-busting mistake would be if only Grixis Charm were an instant and the rest of the Charms were Sorceries. This would have made all four of the other Charms instantly almost-unplayable, whereas all of them as printed have seem some level of serious competitive use.

    I agree with all of the cards that the video cited as well. Jitte is busted because it provides no direction for deckbuilding whatsoever.

  61. Force of Will shows up in almost every Legacy deck because it is the only thing to keep people from doing ridiculously stupid things on Turns 1-2. Without Force of Will, Legacy would be almost as broken as Type 1.

  62. Definitely Memory Jar. Seriously, this card was banned BEFORE it became legal. It’s kinda bad to a print a card that gets illegal before someone can play with it

  63. I didn’t hear anything about Aether Vial. It got banned before it ever became good or broken. Any thoughts?

  64. Skullclamp definitely should never have been printed because it was never going to be able to get played. It was clearly too powerful in any deck with creatures, affinity just happened to use it because it was released in the same set and worked with ravager. But any colorless card engine that good would have been instantly tossed into lots of decks. As it stands now, the only format where it is allowed, vintage, is only not a problem because of the lack of creatures and the games are over too quickly to get any use out of it.

    Any card that is too good to not be played where its banned and only unbanned where it’s unplayable should not have been printed

  65. Mana Drain
    Necropotence

    Blightning is the problem card in Jund. BBE elf sees play in other deck and isn’t overpowered there. Without Blightning its not “unfun” to play against BBE. Its always “unfun” to play against Blightning.

    I really don’t think Ravager was that bad if you just took out Disciple. Disciple was the problem in that deck, well after clamp was banned, it let you be both an aggro deck and a combo deck at the same time, which is why the deck was so fast. Also Disciple saw a little play before Darksteel in combination with other cards like Oblivion Stone and Spellbombs.

  66. Can someone help me unpack what exactly makes Blightning unfun to play against? I’ve never had much distaste for the spell myself, no matter which side I’m on, at least not any more so than your average mind rot. But for some reason the hate seems so in ordinate. Its a mind rot + bolt… is the efficiency of that package that is the problem or the fact that a mind rot effect is efficient enough to see mass play in an archetype? How does Blightning compare to, say, Hymn to Tourach, I card I find much less fun to play against.

  67. @Anon
    Planeswalkers.
    Blightning, discard 2, redirect damage and kill your planeswalker making it a 3 for 1 against decks with planeswalkers, or a 4 for 1 if bloodbraid cascades into it!

  68. @Anon

    I agree that Hymn to Tourach was much less fun to play against back in its day. The random discard would often completely screw you out land, spells or both in the early turns.

  69. Personally I think that all of the CIPT/fetchland/shockland/Tri-lands have had a serious impact on MTG more so than a lot of these other cards. By giving players the ability to consistently play 3+ color decks with little penalty allows them to trim the cream of the crop of each color. I remember when you were forced to play green in your decks just so you could use the color fixing of BoP. How different things are today…

  70. Tim from Texas

    Wow . . . . . . . . I cant believe my idea had so many posts on it. Thanks for doing a video on it guys!

  71. Sensei’s Divining Top is pretty broken, and i agree that it should be banned in Extended, however, the card that made Top SO broken was Counterbalance. I realize it was a way to balance Split Second, but really? Free counterspells? Really? Even Force of Will makes you pay SOMETHING, but the “Unlimited Free Counters” combo was just stupid. Wizards should really look at how cards interact in other formats besides Standard when they make new sets (Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows!?).

  72. There’s a lot of talk about Bloodbraid being bad because it cascades in to card X. Here’s a slightly expanded reason of why Bloodbraid is the current problem with standard.

    1) Being a 3/2 with haste, Bloodbraid is arguably the best cascade card.
    2) Jund and Bloodbraid has, arguably, the best cascade targets in Blightning and Pulse.
    3) Cascade as a mechanic is inherently biased against blue. Running cascade cards and counters in the same deck is… ba dum ching… counter-productive. You are much more likely to waste.

    #3 is really the biggest clincher, I think. Cards like Ardent Plea and Kathari Remnant don’t see much play because you typically want to run things like Negate, Flashfreeze and Cancel in many blue decks or in the sideboard and cascading into them is a waste when the cards with cascade are otherwise unimpressive.

    I mean, think about it. Which is better? Bloodbraid or Kathari Remnant? Which is a better target? Maelstrom Pulse or Cancel. That’s not 100%, but the thing with Jund is the combination of the best cascade cards, the best targets, a deck which very rarely hits a bad flop and a lack of parity on the mechanic to even out the power level in Standard.

  73. For the record, it’s “oo-mezawa’s Jitte”. In Japanese “u” is always pronounced “oo”, like “fruit” or “Stonework Puma”.

    Anyway, good show guys! Personally, I took a 3-year break from Magic and got back in just after the SDT banning, but I don’t think it was necessary. Maybe Counterbalance was too strong, but saying that it made matches take longer wouldn’t be that big of a deal; slow play could be watched for, and errata for tournaments could have solved the problem (say, “~ can’t be activated more than 3 times per turn”)

    As for cards that shouldn’t have been printed, you guys got the main ones: Bitterblossom, BBE, Jitte, Ravager, Lin Sivvi. A few others:

    1) Tolarian Academy. Way too many 0-mana artifacts in the game WotC must have been on something for the entire design/development cycle of Urza’s block.

    2) Time Walk. I can’t believe the original designers didn’t catch this one. Even if you say “Yeah, but nobody’s ever going to have more than one”, an extra turn is a BIG DEAL when the format revolves around Craw Wurms and Shivan Dragons. The other Power 9 I can believe probably went under the radar, but Time Walk seems too obvious.

    3) Humility. Solely responsible for the most confusing of all Magic’s rules, the layering system.

  74. Dark Ritual, this card was just the most busted mana accelerant. Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter on turn one, caused the opposing player with no answer to scoop. Dark Ritual was reprinted about a million times up until masques? I think…but as far back as I can remember, Dark Ritual has always been GREAT. Oh and before the new combat rules…Mogg Fantastic: the owner of the most two for ones EVER!

  75. Oh and Black Lotus, land and dark ritual could provide 6 mana on turn one. In which you would play your personal incarnation 🙂 And imagine if you also had moxen or sol ring in the opening grip also. That’s just not fair, to imagine an opening grip with: All 5 moxen, black lotus, sol ring, and draw underground sea for the eighth card, GOD hand!

  76. cards that are probably a little too good (my opinion)

    1: Tolarian Academy
    2: Price of Progress
    3:Tinker
    4:Mishras Workshop
    5:Goblin Lackey (seriously. whenever they make a new goblin, they need to make sure its not gonna warp formats where it’s legal)
    6:Memory Jar
    7:Necropotence
    8:Life from the Loam
    9:Skullcamp
    10:Tarmagoyf

    Gonna stick with that as a top 10. Not including anything that was printed in Alpha/Beta since, as was stated, Magic was just starting, and they didn’t know any better (all the 1 for 3’s (Ancestral, Giant Growth, Lightning Bolt, Healing Salve, Dark Ritual) were all originally supposed to be commons.)

  77. “The problem with current std and jund is that most of the format doesn't actually do anything. Bloodbraid elf was fine to print, theres just nothing else in std worth building a deck around. There aren't enough truly unique and powerful effects atm like reveillark, bitterblossom, and cryptic command. Most of shards is basically expensive cards that do nothing at all because they're all worse than baneslayer while doing nothing unique. In rise they need to stop printing more garbage vanilla creatures like abyssal persecutor and start printing stuff like jace that actually fills a unique role in decks.”

    Agreed, the entirety of modern standard is just plain worse than LRW-ALA standard, Jund is a worse 5CB, and nothing tops it…

    On another note, the entirety of the raffinity deck was pretty stupid, I don’t think any one card is to blame, because without doing something drastic cough:banninghalfthedeck:cough, nothing was going to stop it.

  78. Pingback: MTGBattlefield

  79. The reason Luis and I don’t harp on ABU cards is simple. Why judge cards for a new game, since there wasn’t anything before Moxen, Recall, Lotus and the like how can you say they should never have been printed.

  80. Those who’d ban Jace, the Mind Sculptor:

    Dude, how much standard do you play? Just try to keep a Jace (could say any of the planeswalkers) on the board for 3 or more turns. In the vast majority of time you’ll fail. But even if you manage to, they’ll just beat YOU instead of Jace.

  81. I quit playing Magic for quite a while because of several storm cards. It wasn’t fun to sit down and watch my opponent play solitaire every match. So I guess I would say Empty the Warrens and Dragonstorm took away more fun than they brought to the game for me.

  82. Firslty, academy obv. I didn’t get to play with most of the cool/good saga cards ever, because academy was soo good it made everything unplayable, until it got banned.
    Controversially, I think fetchlands are awful. Pretty much every deck in a format where they are legal plays them. They add tons of shuffling to the game, and by doing so open up a million avenues for abuse (think cheating, slow play etc.) and make top (a fine card on its own) and other brainstorm effects a nuisance. They also contribute to goyf being insane. They should have just manned up and reprinted dual lands or more shock style lands. Playing lands is the most fundamental part of the game. Making players take the time to shuffle before they get to play is terrible design.

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