Desperately Seeking Tezzeret
Sorry for the lack of updates; Worlds has thrown a huge wrench into the schedule, and I had many problems with both the Internet and various electrical outlets, which should be resolved now - LSV
Well, there goes the 2009 season. I can’t really say I’m pleased with how the latter half went, but things aren’t entirely bad. Some of my fellow writers here on Channelfireball have had great endings to the season, with David Ochoa putting up a string of sick finishes in the last month or so (21st in Austin, 9th in Tampa, Top 8 in Minneapolis, 12th at Worlds), and Conley Woods and Brad Nelson leveling up to 6 and 5 respectively, both of whom were in striking distance of a Worlds Top 8 going into Day 3.
My Worlds got off to a rocky start, with a nice 2-4 in Standard. I would play the same list again, since losing to the mirror three times was definitely a risk inherent in playing Jund, and we all knew that going in. My trials and tribulations in Zendikar Limited have been well-chronicled on this very site, so I’ll limit my comments, but suffice to say that going 4-2 in the Draft portion is way above average for me in this format, as sad as that is. I did 3-0 my second draft, so I’m now on a bit of a win streak!
After starting 2-6, battling back to 11-7 is actually something I’m very happy with. Sure, I ended up in 80th place, so I didn’t win anything (haven’t cashed since Honolulu actually!), but going 9-1 in my last 10 rounds is a good way to end the season, given the circumstances. That segues nicely into my article topic, since part of the reason I had such a nice record at the end was the sweet Extended deck we played. I went 5-1, with the loss being a scoop to Brainburst’s AJ Sacher since he was looking to level up (and I was out of contention for anything too exciting), Ochoa went 5-1, Carlos Romao went 5-1, and PV went 3-3. Best of all, I got to cast Gifts Ungiven, Cryptic Command, Thirst for Knowledge, and Tezzeret the Seeker. How could I possibly feel bad after ending the tournament by going undefeated in matches played while casting the above spells? All’s well that ends well, or something like that!
Tezzeret (Not the most exciting name, but no matter what I name it, people are just going to call it that)
What a beauty.
Good Gifts piles (notice the snow lands and the Wrath/Day of Judgment split!), incidental protection from miser cards like Blood Moon, reasonable outs to decks like Dredge and Hypergenesis even in game 1, and a combo that trumps Dark Depths without even trying. One of the main strengths of this deck is it’s resilience; it doesn’t have any truly bad matchups among the common set of decks one would expect, and can even boast of some pretty insane ones against frontrunners like Kibler Zoo and Dark Depths.
Don’t look at this deck and worry about how fast it assembles the Thopter combo; if comboing out was the main priority we would have played more combo pieces and some extra Muddles. We had a list like that earlier in testing, but I vastly prefer the UW control style of build. The “combo” list, for those interested, is pretty easy to merge with Dark Depths, since it has Black for Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize, both of which are in Depths. With 4 Foundry, 4 Thirst, and 3 or 4 Swords and Muddles, you can assemble the combo very reliably, but that leaves you much more open to opposing hate cards. All of a sudden stuff like Extirpate and Ancient Grudge become very dangerous, since your Plan B is pretty narrow. Adding the Depths combo does help here, but then you are open to Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile, particularly since I don’t think you have room for Chalice (your best anti-Path weapon). The Blue-White list is much less vulnerable to all this nonsense, since you are just UW Control with a combo finish. I actually won more games off using Tezzeret’s ultimate than anything else, since going “Tezzeret, untap some artifact lands/Moxes, go” threatens a one-turn kill. As usual, it doesn’t matter how you kill them once they can’t do anything.
Controlling the Game for Fun and Profit
Most of the games this deck wins end up with your opponent unable to offer much resistance, either because you have assembled the Thopter Combo, stuck a Baneslayer (post board, of course), have them locked out with Vedalken Shackles, or just run them out of cards with your answers and card draw. Having a number of different angles of attack (or perhaps calling them angles of defense is more appropriate?) is pretty sick, particularly since creature removal is basically dead game 1, meaning that you blank a ton of their cards. It is very important to identify what you need to be looking to set up in any given game, since the abundance of tutors and card draw means that you will have access to your whole deck eventually. The most common answer is going to be “assemble the Thopter Combo”, because the life gain generally removes any last outs your opponent might have, but if your life total is high enough, Shackles can also do the trick. Keep an eye out for opportunities to just Overrun them with Tezzeret also; it kills much faster than anything else. There are no blanket rules as to which kill you should go for, but I will mention the most common lines of play in the matchups section.
As with any control deck, knowing the contents of your opponent’s decklist is crucial. Again, the ability to find specific answer cards makes this more important than normal, so I strongly advise you to make sure you are comfortable with your knowledge of the format before picking this deck up. That is also why we didn’t play something like this in Austin; Dark Depths was way better in the relatively undefined field. Depths is more generically powerful, it cares much less about what it’s opponent is doing, and it has cards like Dark Confidant, Thoughtseize, and Vendilion Clique that are just going to be good regardless. It isn’t like we had no clue about what people were going to play in Austin, but going into Worlds I think I could probably write down the decklists of each of my opponents by turn 2 or 3, and only be a couple cards off. When I say you need to know the format, I mean it, and we weren’t anywhere close to that in Austin (nobody was; the Pro Tour always kicks off the season). Knowing at what number to set Chalice or Explosives, what to save Paths, Wraths, or EE’s for, how good Spell Snare is, what outs they have to Shackles or the Thopter combo; all of these things are part of the package when playing this deck. I don’t want to intimidate anyone, since some practice will make most of this flow pretty naturally, and those who have played control decks in that past will pick alot of it up instinctively, but just be aware of what you should be learning while you practice with the deck.
Well Isn’t That Cute
The title for this section bears some explaining. Whenever we were debating about whether to add a particular card, we had to evaluate whether we were getting “too cute”. Gifts-ing for Snow-Covered Island, Island, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn? Cute, but there is no cost to playing both Snow and normal Islands, so we did (and both Web and I both got Snow plus normal lands in our matches once, so take that! In four years of playing Gifts, I had never actually done that, despite playing Snow lands for that express purpose, so I was pretty happy). Trinket Mage-ing for Tormod’s Crypt in game 1? Worth the slot, since the upside of being live against Dredge in game 1 is worth the downside of drawing Crypt in most other matchups. Playing a split of Condescend and Mana Leak? Too cute, and therefore not happening. Here are the cute tricks that we deemed worthy of inclusion:
The Trinket Mage package: Spellbomb, Tormod’s, Artifact lands, Chalice of the Void, and Explosives. Trinket Mage gets Explosives or Artifact lands in the vast majority of games, but being able to pick up hate cards like Spellbomb, Chalice, and Crypt is pretty key. Remember that Tolaria West also gets most of the relevant targets, as well as getting Ghost Quarter and Academy Ruins.
Tezzeret and his minions: In addition to fetching what Trinket Mage gets (although EE at 0 isn’t too exciting), Tezzeret can pick up Vedalken Shackles, Crucible post-board, and assemble the Thopter combo by himself. He can also go ultimate, and sometimes you start getting Artifact lands and Moxes in order to have enough guys to kill them.
Gifts Piles: It would be impossible for me to detail even a portion of what you can do with Gifts, which is why it is so awesome, but I can provide a little help. There are three kinds of Gifts, generally speaking:
- Gifts for action, when the board is pretty empty and you just want some good cards. It might be too early to combo, or the combo might not be what is needed. This usually looks something like Gifts, Thirst, Cryptic, Tezzeret (I love Gifts-ing for another Gifts; they almost never give it to you, but it lets you pick up some other action instead). This is just a straight value play, and in the words of Pat Chapin, is like casting an Inspiration that draws you two more Inspirations.
- Gifts for answers, when there is a particular threat (or threats) you need to deal with. Wrath, Day of Judgment, Path, Engineered Explosives is pretty good against creatures, and is a pretty common pile. If you needed to kill a Dark Depths token, perhaps Trinket Mage, Path, Cryptic, X, would be a wise choice. This is one of the easier Gifts, since you know exactly what you need. With a lethal Tribal Flames on the stack, I got Mana Leak, Muddle the Mixture, Cryptic Command, Tezzeret, and received Leak and Muddle. This is also one of the easiest Gifts to exploit, since you can really get them by getting an answer you already have. For example, if I already had Mana Leak or Spell Snare in the Tribal Flames example, I could get Leak, Snare, Thopter Foundry and Sword, which makes it look like I have no outs. He might have given me the two combo pieces, at which point I Snare the Flames and untap and kill him. Post-board be sure to include Meddling Mage into your equation, since getting Meddling Mage, Trinket Mage, Tolaria West, Negate against Hypergenesis lets you stick a Chalice or whatever it is you need.
- Gifts for the combo, which does involve a good bit of mana and time. You usually have to get Sword, Foundry, and tutors for Foundry like Tezzeret or Muddle. Sometimes Academy Ruins also gets involved, if there is a Thopter in the bin already. If you already have one piece this Gifts is pretty easy, since you can just get the missing piece and some value cards, especially if you have the Foundry. You might even want to Gifts for just Sword, which makes them bin it, allowing you to save some mana. If you get two or less cards, they have to bin them all, so keep that in mind, as it definitely comes up.
Everyone Loves Matchups
I was happy with the list we played, up to and including the sideboard. While I never got to get Crucible online, I used the other slots, so for now I would recommend the same 75.
Fast Zoo
Much harder than Kibler Zoo, one-drop Zoo is still something this deck is designed to handle. The Explosives and Chrome Moxes are by far the most important cards, since without Mox it is hard to leverage all your three and four mana spells, and Explosives is simply insane. You usually win game 1 by either sticking a Chalice on 1 and grinding them out or assemling a quick Thopter combo. Just be aware of Tribal Flames and you should be able to keep yourself in a safe position if you can deal with the initial rush.
Sideboarding: +3 Baneslayer, +2 Glen Elendra Archmage, +1 Path, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -3 Cryptic Command, -1 Aether Spellbomb, -1 Gifts Ungiven
I like siding in Archmage because it does a lot of things reasonable well, even if it is rarely excellent. It chumps twice, which is pretty good, it protects Baneslayer, and it stops them from burning you out lategame. It is hard to get into a position where Cryptic is good, so I swap them. I assume they know about Baneslayer, so don’t think it will be a complete surprise. They might still rely on just Tribal Flames, but one opponent did keep in Paths against me at Worlds. Also keep Ancient Grudge in mind, since they will often have it. Try to save Path for Gaddock Teeg, since he is their best card against you.
Kibler Zoo
If you could face Kibler Zoo each round, you would. While it crushed Austin, the very cards that made it insane in that tournament are pretty bad against this creatureless control deck. Punishing Fire is almost never fast enough to burn you a point at a time, Path is dead, Baneslayer is way too slow, and even Knight of the Reliquary is much easier to deal with than Steppe Lynx and Kird Ape. Explosives does lose value here, but your slower cards gain way more value than Explosives loses, putting you pretty far ahead. Pridemage is pretty annoying, but you don’t usually need the combo until you have enough resources to protect it.
Sideboarding: +2 Archmage, +1 Path, -1 Aether Spellbomb, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -1 Spell Snare
The Baneslayers aren’t great, since their Goyfs and Knights will be bigger much of the time, and Cryptic Command is quite good against them. Again, don’t get caught by Grudge and you should be fine, although keep an eye out for Meddling Mage too. It is pretty ineffective, but I do expect them to have it.
Dredge
Game 1 is pretty tough, although you do have plenty of ways to pick up Tormod’s Crypt, leaving you way more live than most decks. Crypt plus Academy Ruins is your ultimate goal, so don’t worry about trying to get Foundry going. Once you are Crypting them a bunch, their only out is to try and beat you down with 1/1’s, which Wrath or Shackles handles pretty easily.
Sideboarding: +1 Tormod’s Crypt, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +3 Baneslayer Angel, +3 Meddling Mage, -1 Aether Spellbomb, -2 Mana Leak, -3 Cryptic Command, -1 Path to Exile, -1 Vedalken Shackles
Counterspells aren’t very good here, although Spell Snare does stop Ideas and Glimpse, as well as Loam in a pinch. You want Explosives to kill Crabs and Rusalkas, so I would rather cut some Paths. Angel stops their beatdown plan cold, especially if they bring in Tombstalker. Meddling Mage is for Dread Return primarily, although the situation can easily warrant naming Loam or whatever. Be aware of Pithing Needle and Grudge as answers to Tormod’s Crypt, even if neither is really even that effective.
Dark Depths
The only way you should really lose to this is an unanswered Dark Confidant or a really fast combo. I am aware that those are exactly what Depths is trying to do, but your Paths, Snares, Leaks, Ghost Quarter, Aether Spellbomb, and Cryptics all do an excellent job of fighting them. Many Depths decks have Thopters now, so try and keep that in mind once you have Marit Lage under control.
Sideboarding: +2 Glen Elendra Archmage, +1 Path to Exile, +2 Negate, +1 Crucible of Worlds, +1 Pithing Needle, -1 Day of Judgment, -1 Wrath of God, -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Chalice of the Void, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -2 Engineered Explosives
I cut the Mox because the games come down to attrition, since they can’t usually go for the combo right away, out of respect to all your answers. I like keeping one EE to Trinket for, and otherwise would rather have Shackles to make sure you don’t die to Vendilions or Bobs. One trick to remember is that you can take Dark Confidant with Shackles each turn, and keep untapping Shackles. That way you don’t ever trigger him (if you are at really low obviously, otherwise go nuts), and neither do they.
Hypergenesis
Game 1 is probably in their favor slightly if you don’t know they are Hypergenesis, since not many of your cards stop them. If you are on the play and have Mox, you can usually Trinket or Tolaria a Chalice before they combo, which ideally buys you enough time to stock up on counters. The problem is that you kill so slowly, so if they have Fungal Reaches or the like they can often out-mana you. Of course, if they have the wrong monsters, sometimes the Thopter combo or even Wrath actually beats them, so mise.
Sideboarding: +2 Glen Elendra Archmage, +2 Negate, +3 Meddling Mage, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Pithing Needle, -3 Path to Exile, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -3 Spell Snare, -2 Engineered Explosives
I would rather have blank Explosives than Baneslayers, since you need something to pitch to Thirst. You will mostly kill them with 2/2’s, and tapping out for Angel is not something you have the luxury of doing. Random cycling artifacts are fine too, since you have so many dead cards against them. Most of their monsters are un-Pathable, so I don’t bother keeping those either. Pithing Needle can mise a chargeland like Fungal Reaches, so go for it.
The mirror
This is a pretty grueling match, so try and pratice it if you have plenty of free time. Classic Blue control is always pretty tough, and the number of options you have here makes this exactly that. If both players combo, it gets pretty silly, but whoever can stick Academy Ruins will eventually win, given enough time. You blow up their Foundry with Explosives, then you get back EE, finish off the remaining tokens, then finally get back your Foundry and combo them out. Otherwise, someone will randomly die to Trinket Mages or Tezzeret’s ultimate. Both of you have more ways to stop the opposing deck than threats, so buckle up for a long game, and try and manage the clock well.
Sideboarding: +2 Glen Elendra Archmage, +2 Baneslayer Angel, +2 Negate, +1 Crucible, +1 Pithing Needle, -3 Path, -1 AEther Spellbomb, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -1 Wrath of God, -1 Day of Judgment, -1 Chalice of the Void
PV played the mirror at Worlds, and came up with the idea of keeping in 2 Baneslayer over 2 Path. Instead of keeping in Path because they might keep in Angels, just play the Angels yourself. They trade with theirs if they have them, or actually do something still if they don’t. Post-board not much changes, actually. You both still have a bunch of answers, and even though Glen Elendras and Angels can lead to quick wins, the games should be pretty interactive. Needle stops their combo if they get it first, or it can protect your combo from Explosives. Shackles is also pretty important, since it lets you win the Archmage or Angel war.
All-In Red
I didn’t really know this was still a deck, but it was reasonably popular at Worlds. I beat it, and it seems like a pretty easy matchup as long as Blood Moon doesn’t mise you. You have EE for Warrens, Paths for their monsters, basics and Moxes for their Moons, and they can’t beat the combo or a resolved Baneslayer.
Sideboarding: +3 Baneslayer Angel, +3 Meddling Mage, +1 Path, -1 Tormod’s Crypt, -1 Vedalken Shackles, -3 Spell Snare, -2 Cryptic Command
Cryptic is nice, but the games you lose are the games where they Moon you, and it is pretty bad there. Otherwise, just deal with their threats with your answers, which shouldn’t be too hard. They are pretty threat-light, so Meddling Mage should be a good one. Demigod of Revenge, Deus of Calamity, and Empty the Warrens are about it, so name accordingly.
This is much longer than a normal article of mine, but I guess I just wax eloquent when talking about Blue cards. What can I say, I am what I am. This is a pretty sweet deck, and I look forward to playing it in the future, so if anyone has questions or needs clarification, feel free to ask in the comments.
Quote the article:
With a lethal Tribal Flames on the stack, I got Mana Leak, Muddle the Mixture, Cryptic Command, Tezzeret, and received Leak and Muddle
Was the board setup where the zoo player didn’t gamble and give you tez and one counterspell (pretty much did you have 4 mana to play cryptic regardless and/or zoo player couldn’t pay for leak)?
Comment by Chet M — November 22, 2009 @ 10:44 pm
Yeah, it was an odd situation where he had 4 lands and I had 8, so Leak and Cryptic both worked. I also had a Chalice for 1 out, since otherwise Spell Snare might have found its way into the pile.
Comment by lsv — November 22, 2009 @ 10:52 pm
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Pingback by Tweets that mention Initial Technology - Desperately Seeking Tezzeret | ChannelFireball.com -- Topsy.com — November 22, 2009 @ 11:02 pm
That extended deck is a sexy, sexy beast. I literally started to drool.
Comment by Cusros — November 22, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
Why dont you have 1-Ritual of Restoration? With this you can get a
fast-combo gifts pile.
Comment by kues — November 23, 2009 @ 12:35 am
Great list LSV. I am looking forward to sleeving this up and testing it like mad. Man, it plays all my favorite spells!
Comment by Grimfan — November 23, 2009 @ 12:39 am
forget the haters, LSV is still the man
Comment by Blind Fremen — November 23, 2009 @ 12:42 am
I would love to see some videos with this deck.
Comment by Brady — November 23, 2009 @ 12:47 am
This deck is horrible. LSV you should retire. You are a has been
Comment by yo yo — November 23, 2009 @ 1:31 am
So good to read something of substance once again. All of heard about from World’s is the Gindy DQ. Nice to finally read an article about actually playing the game. Even better that it contains my favorite “I Win!” card in Gifts Ungiven. Second the notion of video’s on this deck
Comment by EuroRunner — November 23, 2009 @ 1:35 am
We definitely considered playing a Ritual of Restoration, but its narrowness was what stopped us. While it has a little value with Explosives or something, it is primarily a combo enabler, and the Gifts for the combo situation doesnt usually warrant it. If you are Gifts-ing, you often have enough time to run through the Academy Ruins or Muddle to combo, so the only time Ritual would come up is if you are under mana or time restrictions AND comboing is your best play. That does certainly happen, but we felt it would happen less often than drawing Ritual would be bad.
@yoyo - Very constructive, thanks.
Comment by lsv — November 23, 2009 @ 1:44 am
Dude, this deck is amazing, nice article as always. Been trying to brew a Tezzeret deck in Extended for awhile, have been playing a different blue deck which is good, but this might just be what I’m looking for considering Thopter/Sword is so sick.
Also did you consider playing extra Ruins answers (maybe one extra Ruins of Quarter) including the Crucible for the mirror/blue decks in general? Seems like Academy Ruins is the best card in the mirror and you want to make sure you have more or prevent them from using more Ruins than you.
Comment by Julian Carr — November 23, 2009 @ 3:02 am
Sorry to double post but I suddenly had another small flood of questions.
One quick amendment, I meant to say did you consider playing an extra Ruins answer in addition to the Crucible, there we go.
Anywho: What do you think of Pact of Negation or Disrupting Shoal? Tutoring for Pact with Tolaria West is pretty sweet and might help the mirror.
Do you think Meloku is worth a slot somewhere? It certainly seems better than Baneslayer if it sticks.
And did you consider playing Miren, the Moaning Well?
Thanks again!
Comment by Julian Carr — November 23, 2009 @ 3:10 am
Thanks for the sweet article. It was definitely refreshing to read something from worlds aside from the Gindy DQ. This deck will definitely be a high contender for san paulo ptq season. Keep up the good work!
Comment by Jeremiah — November 23, 2009 @ 3:10 am
Thanks a lot for this list lsv, it was by far the best thing to come out from this tournament for those who don’t want always try to play the bigger zoo (Bant charm? Sure, let’s add wrath in our creature deck, cauz it fights the fatties). Just a few questions:
- Are two leaks enough when everybody is trying to do broken things?
- What would you advise to improve the fast zoo matchup?
- This seems to be a Gifts deck, so are 2 gifts enough?
- Could’nt spellbomb be something else? I understand trinket mage, but against you Dark depth should have plenty of time to chalice on one. Am I missing another use?
- Comparing the list Romao was playing with the brazilian team and the one you played, it seems that you removed some wraths? What’s the reasoning behind that, especially with big creatures on the rise?
Thanks for saving control !
Comment by Saymon — November 23, 2009 @ 4:12 am
Too bad, that the standard part of worlds didn’t work out for you, but that is the risk of playing a deck everybody knows to play against.
I would have really liked seeing you rocking the top 8 with something “ninja” like Gerry Thompson’s featured Spread ‘em list (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwxu2A93xQ) (even if a 15 creatures against Bushwhacker sideboard plan seems suboptimal).
Anyway, this was a very successful year for the team and the quality of the articles is outstanding.
Keep on the good work!
Comment by eidolon — November 23, 2009 @ 4:46 am
Hooray! Sick Extended list, detailed analysis of said deck, and no talking about the damned DQ!
Now all we need is another drafting video and we’re gold.
Comment by Dartarus — November 23, 2009 @ 5:34 am
Unlucky with the standard side of things :/
great article though and well done for the rest of the worlds results you put in. Gotta say i agree with you on zendikar drafting it is pretty abysmal in my eyes.
Comment by Danny — November 23, 2009 @ 5:42 am
I like the facets of the deck being able to handle all the other popular decks out there MAIN deck and the mise of cards to help fit more cards into the overall 75. I feel this a great control deck and hopefully will be putting up a tourney win pretty soon.
@yoyo; we are still waiting for you to become famous buddy so you can help us with your knowledge…..and waiting….and waiting….and waiting….well, you get my point
Comment by Huck101 — November 23, 2009 @ 5:49 am
Thanks for the extended article! Soon enough it’s Extended season and it’s nice to get a head start on everything.
It would be wonderful if you guys could do a video (I love videos!) primer of extended covering pretty much everything relevant. I don’t feel very confidant in extended and I’m sure a lot of other people feel the same way. I just know what decks are decent because professionals like yourself post them. Some topics I would like covered are….
1) When building an extended deck what things should you keep in mind. All I know is that every deck must be able to handle how fast zoo decks are and that if you can’t keep up or combo off in time you shouldn’t bother.
2) Why is Jitte in so many decks? I know this card is good, but I don’t understand why it’s worth playing in decks like NLU, it seems to expensive in a deck that wants to play on your opponents turn.
3) What are the decks to beat? I know there has to be really good decks out there that didn’t make the top 8 of Austin.
I’m sure you can think of more topics to cover, but if you guys made a special video dedicated to covering the in’s and out’s of Extended I would be extremely happy
Comment by Nick Ayd — November 23, 2009 @ 6:35 am
A few of us have a similar list in our testing for an extended meta that will have a set dropped before we ever play a game, but we found room for one silence, one teferi, and one scepter. It defintaly locked rocked. Did you guys try the sceptor chant idea at all in testing?
Comment by Gildea — November 23, 2009 @ 6:53 am
Hi, Luis. I watched you play this deck for a couple of minutes at the extended portion of Worlds and I immediately loved it. I think it goes a long way toward establishing itself as the control deck of choice in the format and I congratulate you for (once again) innov.. … uhm.. I mean - changing extended once again with your good decks.
Comment by Dreamfall — November 23, 2009 @ 7:09 am
video of the mirror match! do it.
or a video of this deck vs something else. It would be a great rainy day video
Comment by Stan — November 23, 2009 @ 7:29 am
What did Ochoa, Romao, and PVD lose to with the deck?
Congrats on the strong finish after the slow start.
Comment by Pawliken — November 23, 2009 @ 7:48 am
Awesome list, but I was surprised I didn’t see a Reveillark package in the board!!
Just playing
Will we get to see this monster in some PE action?
Comment by amos c. — November 23, 2009 @ 8:09 am
Out of curiosity. Why no green/life from the loam? Seems synergistic with the deck.
Comment by Joseph — November 23, 2009 @ 8:09 am
I recently noticed this decklist that won a 207 person PTQ in Europe, and I was hoping for you opinion on the matter. I assume you still maintain the opinion that a more combo-oriented list is worse than the slower version you played at Worlds? Regardless, this does look pretty saucy.
//NAME: Thoptercombo (Andrea Giarola)
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Path to Exile
3 Muddle the Mixture
4 Mana Leak
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Sword of the Meek
3 Spell Snare
1 Ritual of Restoration
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Chrome Mox
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Ancient Den
1 Academy Ruins
1 Watery Grave
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
// Sideboard:
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Day of Judgment
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Academy Ruins
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod’s Crypt
SB: 1 Wrath of God
Comment by Nicholas Gulledge — November 23, 2009 @ 8:10 am
Yoyo is clearly a professional wrestler ChannelFireball hired to help promote an upcoming LSV pay per view event.
My guess is an 8-man tables, ladders and chairs draft, possibly in a steel cage.
Comment by GyantSpyder — November 23, 2009 @ 8:18 am
The main thing I liked was your analysis of the art of choosing a deck based on what kind of format you’re going into. You don’t always default to a control deck, which I like. Sometimes, an undefined metagame warrants simply the most powerful solution. Just play something really powerful, see what others are playing, and then start working on the control decks. I’m still kinda shocked this hasn’t found a way to catch on in Standard though.
Comment by Adam — November 23, 2009 @ 8:37 am
Despite your recent run, you are still the goods, sir. Gratz on pulling a 9-1 to finish in the top 100, which is more of an accomplishment than I have ever acheived.
Keep your head up, and maybe you’ll top 8 4 GPs next year and crush Yuuya for PoY next year. Your career is reminiscent of the days of yore when Kai Budde was the person to beat. You’ll get there. I expect more great things from you.
Keep it up!!
(how is that for constructive?)
Gratz to team Brazil for almost making it to top4 in team competition. Who anticipated the dark horse that was team China? (i’ll bet those guys are sick).I am rooting for you next year Brazil (lookin at you PV).
Comment by dowjonzechemical — November 23, 2009 @ 8:47 am
This is everything I want from a magic article.
Great job and good luck with 2010!
Comment by Summa — November 23, 2009 @ 9:43 am
did anyone else think this was going to be about vintage? hehe
Comment by fRoD[A] — November 23, 2009 @ 10:23 am
Hey luis great article what do you think about adding a LIfe from the Loam for comboing better and eventualy destroy all Hypergenesis’ lands with loam+ghost?? i think gifts-ing for loam-academy-thopter foundry-sword it’s very very strong
Comment by Gary-93 — November 23, 2009 @ 10:43 am
Great deck/article. I know it’s hard with the website and the whole “having a personal life” thing, but hopefully (assuming you still care next year) you’ll be able to get some time to relax and reset your stress levels.
Comment by 1024 — November 23, 2009 @ 11:49 am
Great deck… I lol’d at the “when he moons you” in reference to all-in red. Glad you had fun. Very spicy deck.
Comment by Wes — November 23, 2009 @ 12:17 pm
Jund was clearly the right choice for Standard. Only 34% brought it, but it made up 57% of the 6-0 and 50% of the 5-1 or better.
However, less clear to me is which build was better. A lot of players went with traditional Jund builds: Leeches, no acceleration, no Siege-Gang/Master. And some did fine. I’d like to see a hindsight analysis by yourself or someone else as to the appeal of one route or the other.
Comment by Amarsir — November 23, 2009 @ 12:24 pm
Just saying, that as my favorite writer, I was looking for your article all last week. Fail to your editor for not taking down the headline saying the article was coming later in the week.
But great article, I really enjoyed it and it’s the type of deck I would love to play if I could.
Comment by Corbin — November 23, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
Sweet list lsv. I am glad to see that noncreature control is still viable. For a while it felt like we were degenerating into Nacatls and Baneslayers.
It seems like all the R&D members are sold on crippling control and combo but when it comes down to it there is no skill in playing turn 1 Nacatl and little skill in deciding what enemy threat to remove. When the game boils down to creatures and removal it will be a dismal world.
Thanks for the encouraging news.(At least until all the mirrodin rares rotate.)
Comment by Lpettro — November 23, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
About the draft portion.
When drafting Zendikar with pros is the format just so mindlessly aggro that skill takes the back seat?(at least in certain games)
Is it often I got the geopede to your skyfisher I win you got the skyfisher to my berserker I lose? I imagine a certain number of games come down to nut draws due to the amount of aggro.
Can anyone really do well in the draft portion with such high variance in the draws? For all I know 4-2 may be the result of great skill combines with terrible luck.
I hate to blame luck but is it really possible for a pro to consistenly 6-0?
Comment by Lpettro — November 23, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
No, its not possible for a pro to go 6-0 consistenly because no pro has such a big edge against their opponents. I think even going 5-1 is impossible longterm.
Comment by arbor_p — November 23, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
I’m pretty sure a splash colour was left out on purpose to make the mana more consistent. I mean consider the Worlds Team Finals, where the Chinese player playing a similar style of deck kept getting Blood Mooned with only 4 Basic Islands in the deck (in which Chalice for 0 on top of that would generally eat face and neuter most of the deck), this deck fights against Blood Moon a lot better and has a generally more consistent mana base, with a single Steam Vents to kick up Explosives, I think investing in a 3rd colour (like for Life From the Loam) for example is probably not worth it especially due to WW requirements.
Also you can Gifts for the combo straight up anyway, I mean a lot of it will depend on context and what cards you’ve already drawn, etc (Gifts always does) but think about his pile:
Thopter Foundry
Sword of the Meek
Muddle the Mixture
Tolaria West/Academy Ruins (the only reason you might get the West instead is so you still have Ruins access if they decide to give you the combo because they can beat it)
That’s the combo! The worst they can give you here is Sword + West and it might be a little slow, but it gets the job done and without using a spell slot like Loam would and without adding a 3rd necessary colour (just an exisiting colour for Explo convenience). And yes you an also get Tezzeret too in the mix, basically I think the deck has enough tutors that intergrate well enough with multiple aspects of the deck that you don’t need something like Life From The Loam to specfically get yours Ruins, in fact I would play Crucible maindeck before Loam.
Comment by Julian Carr — November 23, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
“with a single Steam Vents to kick up Explosives”
Pretty sure the Vents is primarily there so Arid Mesa can fetch blue, but that’s a nice bonus.
Comment by MH — November 23, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
Initial Technology - Desperately Seeking Tezzeret…
Your story has been summoned to the battlefield - Trackback from MTGBattlefield…
Trackback by MTGBattlefield — November 23, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
my try and practice this deck for Oakland. BTW, where do most of the top Bay Area players usually play at. Be nice to practice or at least watch them play.
@ really nice deck and a better primer to go with it. keep it up!
are there any other primers on the top standard/extended deckS?
Comment by RAD — November 23, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
You know I heard something really interesting recently. Randy Beuhler was talking about a Zendikar Draft he did while next to you, and commented on how you passed him a Vampire Nighthawk.
Now I’m just curious, after you extolled the virtues of the Nighthawk and even put it above Sorin Markov in Draft, as to how that Nighthawk ended up in Randy’s hands instead of yours. It seems interesting to me that when handing out advice you say one thing, and then in real life you do another, and it wasn’t even Sorin Markov that you took, it was a Malakir Bloodwitch, which I’m sure you’ll now tell me is better than Sorin and promptly take a foil Bloodwitch over Sorin in your next draft.
Comment by TheTruth — November 23, 2009 @ 11:04 pm
Recently I heard something really interesting. It turns out that just recently in a draft you passed Randy Beuhler a Vampire Nighthawk.
I was of course astonished by this piece of information seeing as you have extolled the virtues of said Nighthawk and claimed it to be the best card in Zendikar draft and the first pick every time to all your reader, even over Sorin Markov, and was shocked.
I was even more shocked to find that you took not a Sorin over it, but a Malakir Bloodwitch. Of course I’m sure that you’ll now tell me that Malkir Bloodwitch is also better than Sorin Markov, and promptly take a Sorin Markov over a foil Malkir Bloodwitch in your next draft. I cannot wait.
Comment by TheTruth — November 23, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
Arid Mesa could just get hallowed fountain?
Of course Steam Vents is in there ONLY because of the explosives.
Comment by Serge — November 24, 2009 @ 1:27 am
@julian carr
We had 2 ruins in for a while, up until we added Crucible. At that point, we figured that the only matchups where we really wanted 2 ruins were matchups where we would side in Crucible. As for the rest of the Tolaria West targets, I dont think you want more of them unless you add more Twests.
@thetruth
I passed a nighthawk to BDM (not randy) in a 4 man draft, where I figured the more powerful Bloodwitch would be better. Nighthawk isnt a more powerful card than Sorin or Bloodwitch, but its a faster one, which in this format is more important, In a 4 man, decks are much slower, and a slower but more powerful card becomes better. Not sure what the big deal is either way, its not like im lying to people about what i think about this draft format.
@Steam Vents
Its to kick Explosives for 3, not to enable Arid Mesa, although it doing both is pretty convinient.
We cut some Wraths from Romaos version (which PV, Gerry, and I brewed up; it was like bonus testing when Romao played it in the team portion) for more Explosives. We expected more fast Zoo, and EE is way better than Wrath in that matchup.
Comment by lsv — November 24, 2009 @ 2:18 am
Luis - I wanted to ask you something at Worlds, but I forgot and then you promptly disappeared:
1. What program do you use for recording your draft tech videos?
2. What kind of flower is Humphrey?
I realise these are not article-related, but your response will be greatly appreciated nevertheless.
Comment by Dreamfall — November 24, 2009 @ 5:42 am
You’re not lying to the people about what you think is good in the format??? You said one thing and did the exact opposite, and I didn’t even say that you did, you brought it up.
Interesting….
Comment by TheTruth — November 24, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
I like this deck alot. If i get the chance i will play this deck at GP oakland.
Comment by Max — November 24, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
Oh and by the way, cute title.
Also, what exactly is crucible for? Staxing out a hypergenisis opponent with ghost quarter?
Comment by Max — November 24, 2009 @ 2:18 pm
@ Max-
Basically, yes
Comment by dowjonzechemical — November 24, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
It does wonders vs. Grove of the Burnwillows and Dark Depths too
Comment by dowjonzechemical — November 24, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
I think the main idea with crucible is to use in gifts packages vs. a slower deck.
2 combo cards + crucible + academy ruins, for example. Maybe, only 1 combo card + crucible + ruins + tolaria west if you really have a lot of time. Academy Ruins is a crucial card in slow matchups, like LSV talked about. Tron has been using packages like this with crucible for years, but apparently Tron is just not good enough for anything anymore.
It’s also nice to get half the lands out of your deck by recurring fetches.
Comment by Brady — November 24, 2009 @ 6:54 pm
How does this deck do aginst Scapeshift combo?
Comment by Kenzo — November 24, 2009 @ 9:14 pm
Scapeshift is not a deck.
If people are playing Scapeshift however, this deck plays out against it like it plays against dark depths, exept it gets more time.
Comment by Max — November 25, 2009 @ 12:28 am
@LSV
3 things bothering my mind:
1. I really like the decklist. Im wondering what is the plan for kill, if the sword combo gets disrupted. That leaves us with Tezzeret’s ultimate, Shackles or trinket mage beats. Wouldn’t You like to include any other win condition.
2. Apart from that - what is the logic behind 2 Mana leak?
3. I see ancestral visions missing - was it too slow or limited deck space made you cut them.
Thanks in advance for Your reply!
Mike
Comment by H9th — November 25, 2009 @ 3:43 am
I love this decklist.
Comment by Ra — November 25, 2009 @ 7:54 am
hey , great article. You should really post some videos of you playing the deck. It would be a great help for everyone who wants to learn to play the deck ‘good’.
Comment by Siebevds — November 28, 2009 @ 6:25 am
What would you cut, if you want to play 2/3 vendilion clique (sometimes I need a little hand-control, plus it can become a win condition)?
Comment by Noob — November 28, 2009 @ 5:49 pm
Omg that The Truth guy is hilarious! Jeez LSV, you need to start posting your draft pick orders for 4 and 2 person drafts, obv readers like The Truth are disenfranchised by your hypocrisy… ROAR! ROFL LMAO!
Comment by Someguy — November 30, 2009 @ 9:02 am
Awsome article this is the kind of article I really want to see more of especially the sideboarding parts as they are very interesting also great answer to yo yo who lets face it is an idiot.
Comment by Ed — November 30, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
-Saymon
The spellbomb is for when they DO have chalice on 1. You search it out with Tez and voila!
Comment by Jeff — December 2, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
[...] chose LSV’s decklist over David Ochoa’s because, well, LSV wrote an article about it… and Ocho [...]
Pingback by Careful Consideration - The Most Wonderful Time of the Year | ChannelFireball.com — December 4, 2009 @ 3:16 am
hi, isn’t the scapeshift-matchup pretty tough?
Comment by sable — December 13, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
why does he put relic in against hypergenesis?
Comment by Nikku5 — December 23, 2009 @ 11:48 pm
Scapeshift is pretty rough actually. Thought on using Runed Halo?
Comment by Andrew — December 28, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
[...] the ways of the spreadsheet I’ve created one for the Tezzeret deck based off of LSV’s article here and his sideboarding [...]
Pingback by Rogue Report - A Better Way to Build | ChannelFireball.com — December 28, 2009 @ 9:00 pm
[...] The deck is excellent, and LSV has written about most of the matchups and sideboarding elsewhere. (Here and here to be precise). However, there hasn’t been much written about the Thopter Foundry [...]
Pingback by Maximum Value - The Gifts Mirror | ChannelFireball.com — January 27, 2010 @ 4:12 am