Breaking Through: GP Not So Tampa *2nd*
GP Tampa was this past weekend, and I managed to do pretty well at the tournament. I am not too fond of actual tournament reports for Limited events, as 75% of your matches aren’t worth recounting and the other 25% may have a moment or two in them that are exciting, but are otherwise uneventful as well. I would still like to go over some of the highlights from the weekend though, if I may.
Unfortunately, between Austin and Tampa I had to fly back home to Fort Collins, Colorado for a few exams, which caused a bit of a hectic schedule forcing me to fly into Tampa Friday afternoon. Still, there was enough time for a few team drafts, which are always fun and actually pretty useful in preparing for a Limited event like this. In Team Drafts you will often end up playing some “worse” cards due to cutting, or just because you are willing to take some extra risks. Playing with these cards or strategies really allows you to see Limited from a different perspective and make the best out of any bad situation or bad cards.
After packing up for the night, I had the privilege of heading to our wonderful hotel that everyone has surely heard about plenty by now. Yes, we made the misplay of staying at the Days Inn as well… Our room featured a mound of ants near the bathroom and standing water in the sink that refused to drain unless it hit the overflow drain with the bonus prize of a broken T.V. remote and air conditioner thrown in free of charge! Despite a lackluster night filled with minimal sleep, we headed to the event center in the morning and got ready to find out what we would have to work with for the day.
My pool was pretty solid, although it definitely lacked the cliché bombs that everyone complains about come sealed season. The closest thing to a bomb I had was a Turntimber Ranger with a total of 4 allies in my pool: Itself, Tuktuk Grunts, Umara Raptor, and Stonework Puma. I ended up going with a pretty removal-heavy Green deck that had a heavy Red influence and splashed Black for 2x Disfigure and Hideous End. I was worried about actually winning games, as nearly everything I had was a 2/2 outside of a single Woodcrashers and the aforementioned Ranger. Because of this, I entertained the idea of adding a different color. White offered both Arrow Volley and Pitfall Trap, but no decent guys to win with, which is what I needed. Blue on the other hand had a Living Tsunami, the Raptor, and a Windrider Eel, but I ultimately could not ignore the 3 card Black splash and stuck to my original version. One of the bigger hurdles I had to figure out was whether or not to run a Khalni Heart Expedition and 17 lands, or 18 lands. 2x Teetering Peaks helped make my 18 land decision easier, but I couldn’t help but look at my Baloth Woodcrashers, Lotus Cobra, 2x Grazing Gladeheart, and Turntimber Basalisk and wonder what might have been. Here is the final deck:
The deck was fine and definitely better than other sealed pools I have received, but I was not expecting it to put up a 9-0 finish for the day. Cards I boarded in included:
Shudders were quite sick on the day. Against our very own David Ochoa I brought in both and I believe both managed to 2 for 1 him. There were not too many interesting moments that occurred on day 1 and a few of my matches are already covered over on the mothership via feature matches. In the final round of the day I squared off against Gabriel Nassif for the first of 4 times on the week and that was the matchup where the Mongrel and Mark came in. Gabe had Rampaging Baloths, Timbermaw Larva, and Terra Stomper, which meant as the game went long, he had an advantage. Most of my removal came in the form of Shocks so I wanted to transform into a bit more of an aggressive deck. Surely enough, with Gabe at 10 and me with a lonely Torch Slinger in play, Gabe attacked with a 3/3 and then played the Terra Stomper. Mark of Mutiny could not jump out of my hand fast enough to take the game.
That night we pulled one of the stranger food escapades I have ever been involved with. Next to our shady hotel was a cheap Chinese place that used food coloring to make its fried rice yellow. Despite the sketchy appearance of the place, we decided to dine there as it was open at midnight. We quickly realized however that the establishment had no liquor license and had to come up with a new plan of action. We got our food to go and went across the street to the equally shady Indian restaurant connected to the Days Inn. We knew they had booze and ran the idea of eating our Chinese in the Indian place while enjoying the beer and cocktails they would offer. They allowed this quite excitedly which made for a comical night. Shots were served in wine glasses and screwdrivers were attempted to be made with Hi-C, but it was enjoyable none the less. We called it a night afterward and headed back to the room where I volunteered to sleep on the floor for “bed mate” reasons. Violent sleepers are not what you want to experience when you are poised as making a run for the top 8 the following morning.
We grabbed some food and headed to the site, and I made my way over to pod 1, which was pretty stacked as was to be expected. I assumed that the majority of the players were going to move in on Red and Black as they were mostly high level players and I wanted to avoid the fighting. I opened a Journey to Nowhere in a pack with nothing else exciting save a Kor Aeronaut. I was passed a Scute Mob and Magma Rift, which obviously led to me taking the Mob. I figured Green would keep flowing from my right and assumed that would be a good place to be. I ended up scooping up 3 Timbermaw Larvas, 2 Nissa’s Chosen, Nissa Revane, Terra Stomper, 2 Oran-Rief Recluse, and some other random Green dudes.
I ultimately had to choose between a Red or White splash. Red offered 2 Torch Slingers and a Bladetusk Boar, while White had Journey to Nowhere, World Queller, and Nimbus Wings which is actually sick with Larva, Mob, and the Terra Stomper. I settled on white and expected to have to board in some red against heavy Fear decks.
My deck was definitely solid and good for a 2-1 record, but I ultimately only ended with a 1-2 record as I faced Gaudenis in the 11th round, which was a pretty decent matchup for me until he dropped Obsidian Fireheart. I had a 1 outer to deal with that (other than Soaring Seacliff, Recluse) and it quickly lit my Forests on fire. Forests happen to be the most flammable of the lands, which spelled bad news for me and I moved on to round 12.
Round 12 was a bit awkward in that, for those that don’t know, while I was 1-1 in the pod, I had an overall record of 10-1 at this point. Because of this I faced off against Nassif for a second time, despite him being 2-0 in the pod. This match was covered on ggslive.com to anyone interested, but essentially his nut draw game 1, and a mulligan to 5 for me in game 2 led to a very unexciting match. Turns out, Gatekeeper of Malakir is also the nuts against me… who knew?
For my second pod of the day I sat down with 4 of my podmates from the previous pod, which was pretty nice considering I knew exactly what they would be drafting. I generally am willing to draft as the cards come but knew I wanted some type of control deck designed to beat black and red aggro of all sorts. I am not one to shy away from drafting a crazy concoction either, especially if it fits my ultimate goal.
I started this draft with a first pick Burst Lighting, which is always nice, followed quickly thereafter by a Shepherd of the Lost. White/Red is traditionally an aggro color scheme, but I figured at worst I could just splash one of those 2 picks. The surprising card came pick 3 when Juza shipped me a Felidar Sovereign. I found out later that Juza as also in Red/White which makes the 2nd and 3rd pick of my draft a bit strange, but I took it none the less. I tabled an Ondu Cleric, which allowed me to take things like Magma Rift over later Clerics and successfully table them as well. I received a late World Queller (probably my number 1 drafted card at this point, despite it being rare…) and the gift of Emeria, the Sky Ruin in pack 3. I had never played with Emeria, but this deck seemed like a perfect fit. I ended up with the following list:
I only ended up having to play 1 round with the deck, but it performed perfectly. I caught up against Green/Red in the long game, fueled by a Landbind Ritual to recoup, and then it was academic. In a few test games I had Emeria going with World Queller and Ondu Cleric, which is pretty exciting. Nassif (now paired for a 3rd time) scooped to me as Gaudenis had scooped to him the round before and he was X-1 whereas I was X-2. He ended up getting paired down in the last round and was forced to play it out, which made me feel bad, but luckily he managed to win. I on the other hand, was able to safely draw in and wait around for the Top 8.
The top 8 finally saw me draft Black. It wasn’t that I thought Black was bad, as I actually know it to be the best, but without some heavy incentive to go into it, fighting with your neighbors is hardly a good way to end up with a solid deck. Still, a first pick Marsh Casualties into a 2nd pick Mind Sludge saw me move into Black. I tried staying mono colored for a while but broke serve with a Bladetusk Boar that ultimately found the sideboard. I ended up with a 2nd Marsh Casualties in pack 3, along with a 7th pick Hideous End in that very pack. Comboed with a few fatties in the form of Woodcrasher and Terra Stomper and I had a pretty sick little Black/Green control deck. The entire draft can be viewed at the Wizard’s draft viewer found here.
I faced off against Nassif one final time in the quarterfinals, but his deck just did not have the tools to beat multiple Marsh Casualties and spot removal. Gabe is always a good guy to play against though, and the match was pretty fun to be involved in. Once again, there is video coverage of all of my top 8 matches for those interested.
The semis brought about some drama. Going into the game I was all smiles and jokes, as I typically am. I mean, we are in Tampa in the top 8 of a Grand Prix playing a game we love, whats not to be happy about? Regardless, I lead with a turn 2 Survivalist into turn 3 Greenweaver Druid to John Mays’ Umara Raptor. On my turn 4, I tap my lands and Greenweaver Druid to play a Mold Shambler with kicker, pointing at his lone island. It is at this time that I realize one of my Forests didn’t tap for some reason, or spun around 270 degrees etc, so I go back to tap it. John quickly points at the land I just tapped and claims “You didn’t play it with kicker.” He calls the judge who is sitting right next to him as we have 2 judges pretty intently watching our match. I am quick to point out that I grabbed the Forest and tapped it and even pointed at his Island. My opponent says I never announced kicker at this point, despite acknowledging that I pointed at his land. The judge obviously rules in my favor as no sane person would pay 5 for a Mold Shambler and even point at an Island.
While I don’t agree with what John has done at this point, as I would never do that to an opponent, I obviously understand what he is trying to do at this point and it involved one of two things. He is either fishing for a penalty and possibly a game loss, or trying to put me on tilt, or both. So I ask him at this point (as I am not one to back down from these sorts of encounters), “Are you really trying to rules lawyer me in the Top 8 of a GP?” Everything up to this point is fine in my opinion, and the match would have continued on but what he said next was what put it over the top. “You need to own up to your mistakes. You made a mistake and should suffer the consequences.” I honestly can’t believe that a Top 8 opponent is digging this far down to get a ruling and decide to just focus on the game at this point and beat this guy as fast as possible. After the match, during an interview, my opponent interpreted this as me “being a jerk, and going on tilt” when in reality, all I wanted to do was beat him. Why would I continue to talk and chat with someone who is pulling backdoor techniques against me? He chose his tactics and I subsequently chose mine. I did just that, quickly beating him 2-0. He offered the handshake at this point, to which I replied “No thank you.”
Of course this brought an onset of mixed opinions, but for the most part, people seemed to agree with me. In my opinion, the handshake signifies “Good game” or good sportsmanship etc. and it is not entitled to you just because you sat down and played a match of Magic. My opponent accused me of making mistakes mid-match and not owning up to them, which obviously is not what happened and even if it was, he did not go about the correct way of dealing with it. When you disrespect a player in such a manner, you cannot honestly expect them to show respect back to you a mere 5 minutes later.
I still feel that what I did was right. That was the first time I can ever remember no-siring a handshake so it was a pretty big deal to me. I still had a finals match to look forward to anyway, so putting the drama behind me was the best route to victory.
The finals were pretty exciting, but probably covered better through the video medium. Essentially I failed to draw any removal in game 1, which means I probably should have mulliganed, but Gaudenis pulled out a moderately long game pretty easily. For game 2, I had developed a heavily favored board position, despite missing 4 or so land drops that would have ended the game. Gaudenis was basically dead at this point, sitting on 2 life with a lone Crypt Ripper in play and I had Giant Scorpion on defense along with a Baloth Woodcrasher and Nissa’s Chosen that were both tapped. Gaudenis managed to rip what I am pretty sure was a 1-outter in Soaring Seacliff to win the game.
That said, the position we were in at the end of the game could have been changed if I had played a bit differently. I sent in a bluff earlier where a Nimana Sell-Sword attacked into a Malakir Bloodwitch that was called, costing me a 3/3. Gaudenis knew I had Vines of the Vastwood, but I probably should have not bluffed there as he had a Soul Stair Expedition in play and could rebuy the Bloodwitch if I did have a trick. Despite losing in the finals, I did manage to grab 8 pro points and consequently level 6 which is pretty awesome.
After we left the venue, we went in search of food and ended up at the Wing House, which was basically a knock off of Hooters. Tonight was a special night though, as they were showing the WWE pay-per-view to a couple hundred 12 year-olds which was quite frankly, amazing. We poked fun a bit but ultimately ended up enjoying the night a lot. Unfortunately, I had 2 exams waiting for me on Tuesday so we called it a night and I was whisked off to the airport in the morning.
The tournament was pretty fun overall, although I would plead that the venue be changed for any future events down there. As much as hanging out in a middle school gym sounds cool, it isn’t. I am looking into getting some flights moved around in order to attend Minneapolis, but that one is looking not very likely. I booked my flight out to Worlds on the same day that Minni was taking place to allow for more time in Italy. Still, Worlds is only a few weeks away so I am looking forward to that. Zendikar is awesome, so to anyone on the fence about going to a limited event, whether it be a GP or FNM, I highly encourage you to do so. That’s it for this week, thanks for reading!
Conley Woods
Just wanted to tell you that I support your “no thanks” on the handshake. That is a classy way to illustrate poor sportsmanship without going overboard. Good article.
Comment by Texasgodfather — October 28, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
Way to call that guy out.
Comment by Jordy — October 28, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
i agree with you about the sportsmanship thing. Just sitting down to play a game of Magic does not entitle you to ‘good game,’ especially if you were unsportsmanlike, a rules lawyer etc.
Comment by joe — October 28, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
Congrats and I would feel the same way about the handshake only if it came with an apology.
Comment by Chris Young — October 28, 2009 @ 10:01 pm
Wow that’s pretty impressive to go 9-0 with that deck. It’s not bad but it’s not sure not what I’d expect a 9-0 deck to look like!
Comment by Brady — October 28, 2009 @ 10:32 pm
I have seen people do anything to win including cheat… similar to what your opponent tried to pull against you.
It is shameful to play the game this way and Im glad you didnt shake that fuckers hand
Congrats on your success!
Comment by Jeremy — October 28, 2009 @ 10:39 pm
Honestly I think both of you were pretty wrong when it came to the semi’s match. While your opponent was out of line with his comment, I still feel like he still deserved the shake after he offered it after flooding pretty horribly out of the match.
Comment by Justin — October 28, 2009 @ 10:52 pm
Wow, what a douche that Mays guy…
Funny how he was wearing a Captain America T-shirt and yet tried to be so unethical. LOL. Shame on him.
Karma got him in the end anyway, serves him well you didn’t shake his hand.
Comment by PlainB — October 28, 2009 @ 11:30 pm
Well done Conley! Nice to see the happy-go-lucky scamp beat the shady rules-lawyer.
Comment by Russell Tassicker — October 28, 2009 @ 11:35 pm
semi finals situation is ridiculous, what a dick also the finals was pretty awesome despite the sell sword costing you the game
Comment by handshake — October 28, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
It’s disappointing to see such rudeness in professional level Magic. I had that kind of stuff pulled on me at Nationals in 2008 but the dude was decent enough to back down when I gave him a “come on!”. Taking that to the extent he did was not cricket.
Nonetheless, congrats on your 2nd place!
Comment by W A MacMurdo — October 29, 2009 @ 12:41 am
That’s one hell of a jackass you had to play in the semis, sounds like you handled it perfectly. Congrats on the finish!
Comment by Owen — October 29, 2009 @ 12:43 am
Shady players rules lawyering, forgetting triggers, etc have always been a reality of the Pro Tour. Kibler mentioned he knew his opponent missed the trigger. How many countless stories are there from the likes of Van Cleave(sp?), Fuller, Fabiano, Long, etc…
Dealing w scum is part of the PT experience unfortunately. Be thankful there are still some “good” / decent fellows left on the tour and hope to get paired with them so you can enjoy your tourneys more.
Comment by Someguy — October 29, 2009 @ 5:48 am
Great article Conley. I also would not have shaken the hand of my opponent under those circumstances.
I had a similar thing happen at the Ravnica pre-release. I was hit with not 1, but TWO, Glimpse the Unthinkable in a game and still managed to pull off the win 2-1. My opponent was such a sore loser he just stormed off without signing the results slip. I had to find him and he then offered the handshake, which I also turned down.
Bad sports and rules lawyers just get under my skin.
Will definitely be rooting for you come Worlds!!!
Comment by The Turquoise Mage — October 29, 2009 @ 6:05 am
If you hadn’t tapped two mana for the shambler I would see the guys point, if I were him I would say “tap your mana properly,” then move on. There might be different if it was Kor Sanctifiers in which one mana changes the spell completely, but that guy was reaching.
Comment by Izzetron — October 29, 2009 @ 6:24 am
Conley, awesome report! I agree, sometimes the individual game reports can be a bit boring; I like that you just provided the high(and low)lights. It seems like your opponent picked an awfully big stage to be a giant douche. I agree that you handled it really well and hope that you have more classy opposition in the future. Big ups.
Chris
Comment by Shyft- — October 29, 2009 @ 7:11 am
Lawls at bringing up the trigger, seems like a pretty different situation to me but like you said it’s been beaten into the ground across the net at this point.
Comment by Jonathan — October 29, 2009 @ 7:22 am
Hmm…I actually slightly disagree with the situation here. Conley you come across to me as a very real player, pretty down to earth and kind for the most part. However, it is top 8. I wasn’t there so I’d have to see exactly how you tapped your mana. In my mind it wasn’t the fact that you had made a mistake like tap 5 mana for a mold shambler…cause no, obviously no one makes that mistake in a GP top 8.
However, I’m not sure that’s what he was arguing. His argument was your in the top 8 of a GP and you don’t even know how to clearly tap mana without spinning it all over the place?? Seriously?
If i’m in the top 8 of a GP…I’m tapping my mana at a PERFECT 90 degree angle to make sure there is absolutely no confusion and then I’m going on to say, “Mold Shambler with kicker targetting your Island.” Did you deserve a game loss most definitely not but clear indication of what your doing in a top 8 is in my opinion necessary. It sounds like your play was sloppy to me…as for the handshake i’m ok with that. I think john’s comment was a little snide. I would’ve responded with how I just did…”Top 8 of a GP and you can’t clearly announce kicker and tap mana at a 90 degree angle…cmon conley your better than that.” In a joking non-aggressive tone.
Comment by geissap — October 29, 2009 @ 7:47 am
Getting emotional and antagonistic seems like a bad way to put somebody else on tilt, since it can so quickly dull your own mental focus on the game.
It isn’t wise to try to tilt someone else by going on tilt yourself.
Comment by GyantSpyder — October 29, 2009 @ 7:53 am
Er… what ? There is absolutely no controversy here. He just didn’t know the rules (or did and tried to pull a fast one).
You declare the target, and by doing so imply that you’re going to pay kicker. Then total costs are determined and THEN you have a chance to activate mana abilities, so you were 100% right in declaring the target first, then tapping the forest. Hell, you could place the card on the table (stack), then tap the island and THEN tap your forests.
*sigh* It really annoys me that someone at GP top8 would do that.
Comment by MH — October 29, 2009 @ 7:56 am
(clarification: ‘tap the island’ here means tap it with your finger, not turn it sideways
)
Comment by MH — October 29, 2009 @ 7:57 am
very impressive 9-0 with a very average sealed
Comment by BenS — October 29, 2009 @ 8:11 am
@MH It’s a triggered ability. You pay kicker up front when you cast the spell. You name a target after the spell resolves, when the Fungus enters the battlefield and the ability triggers.
Comment by Riki Hayashi — October 29, 2009 @ 8:14 am
Congrats Conley, awesome job man. I think it’s funny how much people love drama. I’m not saying it has anything to do with you personally, as I think people would have been mad if you didn’t mention the interaction, but I was watching the stream and the commentators and posters exploded as soon as it happened. I do agree that the “mistakes” comment was totally out of line, because it was pretty clear that you didn’t make a mistake, your land just didn’t tap completely or whatever which happens all the time. It’s not like you played the Shambler and then tried to play Scythe Tiger or something with the one “extra” mana and then realized you shouldn’t have access to it.
I have to say I don’t agree with what Someguy said, at least in terms of bringing the Kibler situation into it. I guess technically it is similar strictly in terms of the way the rules are right now, but if you ask me that particular rule makes absolutely no sense to begin with, specifically because of situations like the one that arose in the Quarters of Pro Tour Austin. It creates a huge conflict of interest for players which becomes a very big deal once you’ve got multiple thousands of dollars riding on the outcome of the match.
I feel as if all triggers should simply be “may” triggers as having to help your opponent out and remind them to use their spells or effects is absurd. I mean, we could learn a thing or two from Kenji and remind our opponents to pay for Pacts or untap their Nettle Sentinels for them when they forget, but lets be honest… virtually no one is going to play that way when cash / invites to cash tournaments / whatever else is on the line. The vast, vast majority of people are going to use every bit of edge they can, like even the fabled leaving a sandwich on the table to tilt your hungry opponent.
In that environment, having it be a rules infraction to not tell your opponent to use his cards to their full extent or whatever similar (especially when “may” triggers already exist and missing them is tough sh*t) makes absolutely no sense.
Comment by Seryph — October 29, 2009 @ 8:19 am
Regarding the situation with the player arguing the Kicker payment; I have a question about a similar situation.
At GP Chicago, James Mink was playing for a slot in the Top 8. His opponent removed his Arc-Slogger, and Mink picked it up, slid it to his Graveyard, paused, and brought it back to play without releasing it claiming “I have a response.” His opponent stated “Too late. It hit your ‘yard. We’re playing for the finals, man”, and the inexperienced Mink acquiesed.
Later in the match, his opponent tapped his lone Plains (along with two other lands) to Krosan Grip a Chalice of the Void set at one. He then attempted reverse that play, and use a Savannah instead so that he could Swords to Plowshares a Magus of the Moon the same turn. Mink saw the play unfold, but unsurprisingly would not allow the reversal.
Would this be fall under the same consensus guideline of not being a rules lawyer at that level?
Comment by Parcher — October 29, 2009 @ 8:44 am
I have no qualms with your opponent trying to get a win off of you, rules-lawyer style, at such a high level, as there is a fair bit of money on the line. My friend ripped hurricane for lethal against Quentin Martin’s on-board win in game 5 of semi-finals at canadian nats, and flashed it and placed it on the table, and Quentin asked the judge if that implied it was being cast for 0. Of course, the hurricane was still allowed to be cast for 7 or whatever quentin’s life total was at, but still. Is it fishing for a win? Of course. But there’s nothing wrong with that, especially when it’s at such a high level. I agree with you, however, when he starts calling skill/mistakes, etc into question. That’s completely disrespectful and pathetic. I think you handled that extremely well, as nothing is more justifiably humiliating than having the opponent that just beat you refuse your sad attempt at a handshake.
Well done, and congrats on your finish
Comment by Dreamswept — October 29, 2009 @ 9:00 am
So, pretty sure there was some misinterpretation here which ended up snowballing. I don’t see how he could be fishing for a penalty/game loss here since I can’t think of any way you would get one with the events that happened. The worst that could have resulted was them ruling the shambler was unkicked (which clearly wouldn’t happen either these days.)
Your comment after the judge call is quite antagonistic and surprisingly so to him if he didn’t expect you to think he was after a penalty. It just comes off as you being upset at him involving a judge on a play that was questionable to him, which explains his retort. So it just results in some serious bad blood and John May getting blasted in the forums from one side.
Comment by Orrin — October 29, 2009 @ 9:03 am
Your semis opponent knew he was going to lose probably. It sucks when people realize they’re going to lose and instead of accepting it like a man do stuff like that. Oh well, such is life.
Comment by SpecterDrgn — October 29, 2009 @ 9:32 am
Congrats on win! ! !
Was pulling for ya the whole way through. I knew there was something special about you and fully believe you are hall of fame material. Here’s to seeing you in the Worlds Finals!
Comment by aclaiborne — October 29, 2009 @ 9:36 am
With all the discussion of sportsmanship being had here Conley, why has there been no mention of how you berated your semi finals opponent to the coverage staff on his opinion of Ob Nixilis vs Sorin?
Also your comment “Are you really trying to rules lawyer me in the Top 8 of a GP?” seems out of line. There are many other ways you could have voiced your opinion on his judge call, most of which would not have the same judgmental or accusatory tone towards your opponent.
Furthermore, you are playing in the Top 8 of a high level magic tournament, with a high REL. I don’t think calling a judge over things is being a “rules lawyer” here, it is simply expecting your opponent to play by the rules as they were written and make his actions clear so that there is never a discrepancy in what is happening. Sure at 5 mana one could ASSUME you meant to play it kicked and not unkicked, but when we begin making assumptions like this we are just removing one more elemental of skill in the game. Just because you are in the top 8 of a grand prix you are still not entitled to the assumption that you wouldn’t have made such a boneheaded mistake, or that you intended to make the right play. Your action of tapping 5 mana showed John May that your Mold Shamber was being cast without kicker when you declared it, and he should not be expected to assume you meant to do anything else.
Comment by MikeB — October 29, 2009 @ 9:43 am
I never have liked the term good game. If a game was truly good, and the losing player says it, then its fine. But there’s so many reasons that a game could be bad, one of which is that one player just lost, and most players aren’t exceedingly thrilled about losing.
I think Loucks attributed that to midwest players though, so it might just be that I’m from MN.
Regardless, I tend to say “good luck next round.”
Comment by Nick — October 29, 2009 @ 9:55 am
The semis situation has a fair argument to both sides. While of course John isn’t going to get that call resolved in his favor, when playing for a minimum of $800 you take the breaks that you can get. I’d be quite surprised if you wouldn’t hold an opponent to playing a firespout for only green when you had no fliers out and he trys to tap a mountain after announcing his spell and pointing at your creatures. Even though John’s attempt was a pretty far stretch, don’t act like it’s something that’s unheard of.
Comment by thisguy — October 29, 2009 @ 10:02 am
First, Conley: congrats on the second place and making level 6.
Its funny how these etiquette discussions are almost always more heated than discussions around cards or decks.
For my $0.02, good sportsmanship should not require that your opponent treat you in any particular way. He was being petty, and you responded in kind. Its normal and understandable, but not really justifiable through the lens of “sportsmanship”.
Why not let it go as a regrettable incident rather than bring it up in a public forum where the accused may or may not be able to defend his actions?
Comment by Robin — October 29, 2009 @ 10:13 am
“You need to own up to your mistakes. You made a mistake and should suffer the consequences.” .. The dude was TOTALLY projecting, and should have been called out on that too. =) And then he should get his butt to a 12-step meeting.
Comment by Jack — October 29, 2009 @ 11:13 am
I think this article should have spent more time focusing on the rumor currently going around the Pro Tour that in the past you have used Ranch dressing to assist in pleasuring yourself.
Can you please shed some light on to the validity or basis of this rumor?
Comment by Rumormill — October 29, 2009 @ 11:21 am
Pfffffffffft
“violent bed-mate”
I believe this is an emotionally charged overstatement that you need to OWN UP TO as a premier writer of magic strategy and reigning peoples champion.
At least there wasn’t any blood-shed.
Oh wait…..
Comment by Harry — October 29, 2009 @ 11:45 am
If it had been just the judge call on the mold shambler, I wouldn’t think of the guy as so bad. I mean, I don’t like rules lawyers in general when they call you on a mistake and try to penalize you for it. But his response afterwards was completely uncalled for. Sure, it was probably not all that nice to call him out like that, but he went over the top. Thank you for beating him 2-0 and not shaking his hand - he deserved the treatment.
Comment by Scrapjack — October 29, 2009 @ 11:51 am
hey conley… nice finsih, congrats on your level up… I tried to be there, but my son got sick and I had to cancel at the last second… I’ll see you in san diego though
as for these other people that think its ‘ok’ to rules lawyer or try to weasel an extra advantage out of someone because of the ‘high level’ tournament situation… to you I say no..
being a douche is being a douche is being a douche no matter what the play situation is… clearly, conely’s opponent was trying to be a douche… but as what happens with some people who think they can just try the douche move and get away with it, conley called him on it… this situation usually happens with people of low self-esteem or confidence level.. they try and act like a douche and expect the other person to back down and obsequiously bow down to them… our conley is not such a weak person
brow beat is a magic card… not an acceptable form of play
conley you handled the situation exactly as you should’ve handled it and exactly as your temperament dictates… with class, a little surprise, and a hefty sense of justice at the end
Comment by sin_plague — October 29, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
I actually have to disagree that it was not a mistake. You clearly did not tap the forest at first (I have watched the video) and you did not clearly announce kicker. I also do fully agree with the ruling by the judge (your intent was clearly to kick the spell) but I also agree with John May asking the judge what happens there. Rulings change often and I know people who were forced to play spells unkicked and simply waste the extra tapped mana during recent ptqs when they did not announce the spell was kicked.
“Rules lawyer” is very negatively loaded term to throw around in the gaming community. Players are constantly told to call a judge when they have any questions. Calling someone a rules lawyer for them simply doing what any player is supposed to do is unfair. Magic is a game with rules and penalty for breaking those rules and someone enforcing those penalties and rules is not doing anything illegal or shady. John May at no point lied about your actions: you did not announce kicker you simply implied it & you didn’t tap correctly. It is then the judge’s job to judge intent. No hard feelings should be involved; it is simply a part of Magic.
Another part of Magic is sportsmanship. Richard Garfield wanted this to be an intellectual sport and that means sportsmanship is a part of the game. I wish Magic had a little league that taught this fact more. You shake your opponents hand at the end of the match, you say “good game”, and you wish them luck. If you made mistakes you try and learn from them. If you get flooded or screwed you hope you have better luck next time. But no matter what you play like a good sport.
Congrats on a good run should go to both Conley Woods and John May and I wish them luck in San Diego. I hope they both offer their hands at the end of each match and I hope their opponents always shake their hand back.
Comment by Harry — October 29, 2009 @ 12:40 pm
I’m obviously not a pro-level player, but your sealed pool seems pretty sick to me. 7 kill cards (even if they’re mostly just shocks), 2 gladehearts, a woodcrasher is a great finisher and good deal of acceleration.
Comment by BenGreen — October 29, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
I would have told the “rules lawyer” that he was a terrible person and that he was bad and should feel bad. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.
Comment by Blind Fremen — October 29, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
Better just to shake the hand. Sometimes people make mistakes or are perceived as ruder than they intended. It’s always safe to be nicer than other people deserve.
Comment by Jeff Stewart — October 29, 2009 @ 1:26 pm
Look I was there watching the game live, I was standing literally 3 feet away from the table. Conley announced the spell and tapped 5 mana, the one forest just kept spinning and as soon as Conley saw he tapped it, before the spell resolved. It’s not like he said go or tried to play something else or anything, it was less than 2 seconds in between both actions. I also talked to both players afterward and got their stories, May was a pretty big **expletive deleted**. Being a fan of Conley’s I tried to catch most of his matches and he played Mold Shambler in almost all his decks, there is no way he made that mistake. The denial of the handshake is something quite harsh and if a nice guy like Conley did you can only imagine what May was like.
Comment by Luciano — October 29, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
I really think you should have made the handshake. I can understand at the heat of the moment why you wouldn’t but it is still better to end on a positive note. It shows you are forgiving which is exactly what he is not, therefore making you look more professional…
Which by the way congrats on Level 6 as so few people make it to that level. Good luck for the remainder of the season!
Comment by American_Kid — October 29, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
Grats on 2nd place and Level 6, Conley. Big ups as well on not taking any crap off of that punk. Looking forward to hearing you and the Monday Night Magic guys sharing laughs about that soon.
Comment by Jason — October 29, 2009 @ 2:28 pm
Wow that guy was a tool and I hate to play against people like that. Or wine and complain the whole match. Good report and you did the right thing dissing that guy.
Comment by NoName — October 29, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
I was there on the stream of ggslive and your were fun to watch. Obviously the semi-guy was prolly new to top8 and did a stupid thing, he should’ve used his brain. Most people on the chat were pretty riled up about it lol.
Good luck next time
Comment by Nockme — October 29, 2009 @ 5:13 pm
I agree with Jeff Stewart, “It’s always safe to be nicer than other people deserve.”
You perceived his actions as being unsportsmanlike, just as hey may have perceived your actions the same way. Magic is a complicated game and errors are made, but it is best to settle them in an amicable way because you may play the same opponent again (or they might be a columnist who has the power to tell many about what a jerk you were).
Also, from reading this and Gerry’s article, it seems that pro level magic events are full of douchebaggery, but seriously we should leave that to the experts (frat boys).
gratz on the finish
Comment by Just Some Guy — October 29, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
You made a mistake. You never announced kicker, or said the word “kicker,” and didn’t pay the kicker cost. Then you point at island, your opponent points out the fact that you didn’t announce/pay for kicker, then you pay the cost after you realize your mistake. He calls a judge for clarification, explains the situation, you explain the situation, the judge rules in your favor, and your opponent doesn’t even argue the matter any further, simply accepts the judges ruling. There was no “disrespect” as you say. You paid 5 for the shambler, he called a judge, the judge ruled in your favor. You refer to mistakes you didn’t make… obviously you aren’t remembering things clearly, look at the footage, forest remains untapped. You made a mistake. If there is someone to be mad at, it’s yourself. Tighten up.
That being said, it’s not very classy to “no-sir” the handshake and it’s certainly not very classy to call your opponent a “douche-bag” in the interview afterward.
Calling a judge is not “rules-lawyering,” when there are differing points of opinion on how the events transpired when money is on the line, that’s what their job is.
I think you owe John May an apology.
Comment by TommyD — October 29, 2009 @ 7:45 pm
@ Conley, I have two questions:
1. At PT Austin my opponent was at 3 life and I had a Mogg Fanatic in play. He has like 7 lands out. He then plays a Temple Garden, taps the Garden and 3 other lands, puts Worship into play and looks at me saying ‘is that fine?’ I look at his lands and say ‘ok, so you take 2 from the Temple and go to 1.’ He then goes ‘oh, no no, into play tapped’ and taps another land to pay for Worship. I call a judge, we both explain the situation, the judge rules that he gets a warning for not paying the appropriate cost for Worship and that his Temple Garden comes into play tapped and he must tap another land to pay for Worship. I appeal and the head judge uphold the ruling. I accept the judge’s ruling, thank him for his time, and we continue with our match. In retrospect I agree with the judge’s ruling, but I think pleading my case to the judge that he should have to pay 2 life instead of tap another land is reasonable enough and not unsportsmanlike in any way. Would you agree? I think the point where your opponent was unsportsmanlike was when he kept on after the judge made his ruling, instead of accepting that his understanding of the rules was mistaken.
2. I’m also a graduate student with a full course load and teaching responsibilities, trying to attend tournaments as much as possible. How do you manage to find so much time to playtest and attend events regularly, on top of your academic responsibilities? Do you have a doppleganger doing half your work for you or something?!
Comment by wescoe — October 29, 2009 @ 9:24 pm
So, did you offer handshakes to your opponents in Austen after they spent the game paying for your prisons to attack your planeswalkers despite the fact that you knew they didn’t need to? Or maybe their lands just kept spinning to the tapped position for no reason.
Comment by Matt — October 29, 2009 @ 9:54 pm
anyone who has watched the video saw that Conley messed up, and the judge bailed him out, he clearly didn’t attempt to tap the 6th mana, and there is nothing from preventing you from adding 5mana, then playing the shambler
intent is weak, its a professional level event, you shouldn’t get leeway like that
his opponent was absolutely right, own up to your mistakes, maybe shouldn’t have said it, but Conley should have just accepted his mistake and moved on, if he lost the game as a result so be it
Comment by Josh — October 29, 2009 @ 10:18 pm
To the few people who disagree with me I would like to point out some things:
1- Pointing at my opponent’s island is a shortcut for announcing Kicker. They literally are one in the same. How would you expect a foreigner to announce kicker on a Mold Shambler? You are not forced to verbally announce things in Magic, but only demonstrate that they are being used or put onto the stack etc.
2- I tapped my 6th forest before anyone else had said a word. I did not do so after my opponent talked or a judge said something. You have a point in Magic to announce spells, THEN pay the mana. If you argue that pointing at the island means it has resolved, then counterspells are officially worthless from here on out, as a player is allowed to make the decision on whether his own spell has resolved regardless of any response an opponent may have had. If I tried to tap mana after it was point out that I didn’t have 5, there would be a legit case.
For another angle, what would have happened if I had cast the Shambler, paying 0, pointed at my opponent’s island, THEN tapped 6 mana? You think the judge would have made me take it back? Absolutely not. He would have said pointing at the island was the same as announcing Kicker, and then I payed 6.
3- The actual calling out of that was not the part that I felt was disrespect. Instead, the disrespect came when my opponent told me I needed to own up to my mistakes. This is literally the same thing as looking at your opponent and going “You suck and should admit it,” when clearly the “mistake” made was purely accidental and not based on playskill. This is akin to telling someone who trips while walking that they made a mistake.
4- Beyond the simple interaction that was documented, I felt like my opponent was pretty rude throughout the match and his justification to the judge over and over was petty. Watching the video online does not convey exactly what happened, as it is very biased as the only ” visible action” that was done incorrectly was on my part.
Comment by Conley — October 29, 2009 @ 10:20 pm
On a second thought I should have posted this comment on the “other” GP Tampa report where people express support for this kind of things…
Comment by BeerAtog — October 30, 2009 @ 2:06 am
“I feel as if all triggers should simply be “may” triggers as having to help your opponent out and remind them to use their spells or effects is absurd. I mean, we could learn a thing or two from Kenji and remind our opponents to pay for Pacts or untap their Nettle Sentinels for them when they forget, but lets be honest… virtually no one is going to play that way when cash / invites to cash tournaments / whatever else is on the line.”
Does Kenji actually do this?
Comment by C0LD L0GIC — October 30, 2009 @ 2:58 am
I see what happened with the Semi Finals situation.
He had four of his lands spread-stacked on each other, completely normal. When he went to play the guy, he reached to grab Greenweaver Druid and attempted to turn it and the four semi stacked lands at the same time. When he did this, he rotated everything to the right with the last land in that stack as a pivot. That meant he had his weight towards the lower portion of the cards and so when the lands turned, they pretty much slid along the top of the forest (since he didn’t have enough pressure on that side of the stack to make them all turn the right way).
It clearly was intended to tap all of them.
This isn’t, however, expressing any opinion on the way either of the players handled the situation. Just an observation from the footage on WHY that forest didn’t tap correctly.
Comment by C0LD L0GIC — October 30, 2009 @ 3:25 am
first!
hehehe i WAS actually first opening this article the night before and when I Was about to post I saw a “49 comments, no comments yet” so I had to go for it!
Comment by Kenseiden — October 30, 2009 @ 8:02 am
“Does Kenji actually do this?”
Yes. I don’t remember the PT/GP exactly, but he would stop players from drawing their card for the turn in order to let them pay for their Pacts. I think it was back when Dralnu/Teachings was big, because people would keep forgetting about their Slaughter Pact triggers. I also think that it was before the Comp Rules change that allowed people to use physical reminders for things like upkeep triggers, but I don’t remember.
Comment by Rick — October 30, 2009 @ 9:30 am
meh I guess I was wrong, the rules do let you get away with these type of missteps given pointing at a card is convention for announcing kicker, and you pay after all the fun is done
not a fan of it though, leeway just takes away from the stronger technical players edge something simple like making sure you actually tapped all 6 mana should be part of the game
at any rate I was wrong, Conley and the Judge were right
Comment by Josh — October 30, 2009 @ 11:40 am
yes Kenji actually does that… he’s a great magic player.. and a little too honest, when it comes to playing, for his own good
Comment by sin_plague — October 30, 2009 @ 11:43 am
Just watched the video a few times, clearly didn’t tap the land until after pointing - used left hand to tap it sort of stealthy.
That said it was clear his intent as he pointed to the land, not sure what words were exchanged because you can’t tell from the video.
Everyone should watch it for themselves them make judgements…
http://www.ggslive.com/show.html
Comment by DustyH — October 30, 2009 @ 11:50 am
“Kenji doing that”
I have to say, my respect for him just drastically rose further. I completely understand not allowing people to do things under the guise of “hand holding” and the fact that its a competition, but at the same time, I find it very honorable and respectful of him to do things like that, basically looking at it as more than just a shark feeding session and instead wanting to get his opp to relax and enjoy a good match where its not decided over something like “HA, GOTCHA B****!” I’m not saying people that call judges for that are wrong - they are protecting themselves at the same time - just that Kenji doing that over something he feels is an understandable miss (and then still winning) is above and beyond.
Conley: He did try to tap it, its just that he put his weight on the lower cards, so instead of the forest turning sideways with them, the cards above it just kinda slid over it instead. When he did it, his hand was covering it at first so he didn’t realize it. Its pretty clear in the footage.
Comment by C0LD L0GIC — October 30, 2009 @ 12:34 pm
Breaking Through: GP Not So Tampa *2nd*…
Your story has been summoned to the battlefield - Trackback from MTGBattlefield…
Trackback by MTGBattlefield — October 30, 2009 @ 1:07 pm
Just saw the video. What happened (since the description isn’t entirely clear) was:
- he put the Mold Shambler on the table
- then he tapped Greenweaver + 3 lands
- then he immediately tapped the last Forest
- then he pointed at the Island
So in that sense, the announcement is not as clear (since he didn’t point at the Island until after he’d tapped the last land), but the tapping of the last Forest was pretty quick. It’s kind of the equivalent of putting the Mold Shambler on the table and tapping 6 lands, one by one. Your opponent can’t stop you after the 4th one and say “you just played it unkicked”.
Comment by Phil Y — October 30, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
gj on 2nd.
But more importantly. I agree 100% with your decision in the semis.
Comment by Andy"SweetCandy"Wilson — November 1, 2009 @ 12:58 am
Ok… I feel like even though this is coming three weeks old, I need to make some input, since I know John May very well, as he is a good friend of mine, and in no way a cheater OR a shady player.
Here is what happened, coming from his point of view. I watched it happen live, and my first reaction was, “He didn’t tap enough mana…” when Woods played the Shambler. I knew that he had intended to do so, since I was on an outside perspective, and respect Woods as a sound player. May, however, being in his first GP Top 8, was in a different mindset. He wanted to win, and he wanted to play perfectly in order to do so. He was in the Mindset you get at in a PTQ when your opponent thinks they can get away with murder, but you, knowing the rules, won’t allow that. Had Conley maybe reacted different, I know John would have avoided the comment. The reaction Conley made, according to John May’s perspective, is a defensive one, and his comment regarding Rules Lawyering was uncalled for. That comment alone prompted the “mistake” comment from May. I know, I asked him.
John May is an upstanding part of the Virginia Magic Community. He is well liked by everybody, and has never been accused of foul play in anyway, because he plays magic to enjoy it. He accepted the Judges final ruling and went about his business in the game and match. He felt as though the comment that Conley made regarding rules lawyer was an attempt to comment otherwise regarding his personal character around the game. His hand shake at the end was an attempt to make good with Conley, but the refusal was out of line.
I’m not saying that John May handled the situation correctly. What I am saying though is that there was quite a bit of error on both sides of the table, and Conley Woods is NOT innocent in this matter. John May did not attempt to cheat, did not attempt to get away with anything he shouldn’t have, and most importantly did not accuse Conley Woods of being a malicious player, a cheater, or ethically shady. Conley however resorted to name calling, and making ill comments towards John May. This is unsportsmanlike, and if any penelties were to have been awarded, then that would be the one.
I am just trying to clear John May’s name. I hope that Conley can be enough of a man to come out and admit that he also was wrong regarding the situation, and that from an outside perspective, and Conley’s, it could look as though it was shady dealings, but from John May’s perspective, he was within his every right to call a judge. He admits now that he could see the “intent,” however, in the heat of the play, in the center of the stage, he was in a completely different mindset.
Now, John does not talk to people about what happened anymore, and he’s moved on past the situation, but I personally still feel upset by the words that are being thrown at John May, especially since they are talking ill of very good friend, a fantastic magic player, and an oustanding asset to the magic community.
Just apologize Conley, and admit that you too were just in the heat of battle, and that from a different perspective, you can understand his mindset. Not like he needed that island anyway. So obviously it wasn’t really about getting ahead so much as he saw a mistake and without thinking, called a judge, because that was the mindset he was in…
Comment by Jason Tams — November 27, 2009 @ 10:42 am